DH 82 Tiger Moth ...

[jcf]

So, search revealed no Tiger Moth thread and with the new Airfix kit ...

Tiger Moth Fighter, yep 'twas real. 





Illustrations and text from Armament of British Aircraft, H.F. King (normally I don't copy/quote complete
passages, in this case I'm making an exception.)

Tiger Moth The Tiger Moth appeared in 1931. Quickly establishing itself
as a trainer, it also showed adaptability for armament practice or offensive
work. Installations were made of a camera gun on the starboard lower
wing and an Aldis sight bracketed to the starboard side of the fuselage,
and also of a carrier for 20-lb bombs beneath the fuselage, this last in conjunction
with a vertical tubular sight and release quadrant. One Tiger
Moth (E.6) was built solely for offensive work as the Tiger Moth Fighter,
and the makers announced:
   'We are now able to offer the Tiger Moth as a single-seater fighter
   fitted with a machine gun firing forward through the propeller, and also
   capable of carrying eight bombs of 20-lb each. A fairly substantial order
   has been received from an important foreign Government for Tiger
   single-seater fighters fitted with Gipsy Major engines, on which we have
   now completed full firing tests, both on the ground and in the air. The
   machine gun is air-cooled, weighs only 9-5 kilos, and is manufactured by
   the Czechoslovakian Arms Factory of Prague. A Pratt and Whitney
   synchronising gear is fitted, which is very light and efficient, the drive
   being taken from the top half of the rear cover of the engine, where provision
   for hand-starting gear is normally allowed for. The gun is
   mounted in the front cockpit, and shoots directly over the top engine
   cowling. The ammunition box, holding 200 rounds, and the cartridge
   shute, are fixed to the mounting itself, and the only connections between
   the gun, gun mounting and fuselage are four holding-down bolts. The
   cocking handle is connected only by a cotter pin to the lever which acts
   on the gun. In order to protect the workings of the gun it has been
   cowled in. An Aldis telescopic (sic) gun sight is provided for long-distance
   firing. The ordinary ring-and-bead sight for "dog-fighting" can be fittedas
   an alternative, or together with the Aldis . . .'

Tests were made with a disc fitted to the propeller and it was claimed:
   'The results of the official ground and air acceptance test were as
   follows: (1) Pulling over the propeller by hand, the first round penetrated
   the disc 19-i deg. after top dead centre. (2) Dispersion throughout
   the entire speed range occurred between the angles 45 deg. to 86 deg. ;
   that is to say through an arc of 41 deg. (3) Propeller speeds varied from
   800 to 2,400 r.p.ni. These results are absolutely satisfactory.'

Clearly D.H. were rather pleased with their little trainer as a fighting
machine, but they could hardly have foreseen that the Tiger would actually
go to war-and not in the service of a foreign nation but wearing the
roundels of the RAF. Like the D.H.5 before, it was pressed into service as
an anti-submarine aircraft with four 20-lb bombs under the wings. For
anti-invasion duties astonishing devices were schemed, among which a tray
of Mills bombs was one of the least spectacular. These devices are beyond
the scope of the present review, and Tiger Moth enthusiasts will already
have been apprised of them by Messrs Bramson and Birch's Tiger Moth
Story (Cassell, 1964). The present writer's contribution to the continuing
story of the Tiger is the foregoing fragment of history.

[pyro-manic]

I've considered an emergency beach-strafer to counter Op. Sealion. Lewis or Vickers K gun for the backseater, possibly reverse the rear seat. Maybe a box-full of grenades as well.

Podded guns underwing a la Gladiator? Increase power with a Gipsy Six engine (lengthen the tail for balance)?

[Cobra]

FYI, if you watch the Movie Thunderbird 6, they Used the Tiger Moth as Thunderbird 6 at the End of the Film! Thought you should know. Dan

[Rheged]

Didn't Tiger Moths run "scarecrow" patrols over East Coast convoys in the first few months of WW2? As I vaguely remember,  the theory was that  a U boat's lookouts would hear an aero engine and dive to escape. Even  a single 20lb Cooper bomb dropped on the dive-ripples would cause some concussion effect in the water and allow a convoy/ single ship to get out of the way......Well,  that was the theory .

[DarrenP]

I know a lot of Civilian 2 seaters were handed over to the RAF but always wondered an Air "Home Guard" doing army co-operation type roles maybe with the observer armed with a BAR?
Or a Catapult launched observation aircraft for convoy escorts?

[rickshaw]

The problem with arming the Tiger Moth is that it is flown from the rear seat, not the front.   Most of the important controls are in the back IIRC.  So, that makes use of any hand held weapons rather problematic.  I know if I was a pilot I'd not want anybody wildly swinging a BAR or any other sort of weapon around near my head and firing it.

I'm interested though, in the fighter Tiger Moth.  I wonder machine gun was used?  I can't imagine anything heavier than rifle calibre.  I note also, no fancy reflector gun sights for that one!

[pyro-manic]

Don't think it's big enough (or heavy enough - the text says 9.5kg) to be anything bigger than .303, which would be the obvious choice.

[jcf]

The Tiger can be flown from either seat.

[rickshaw]

The Tiger can be flown from either seat.

My understanding though, is that the instructors position, in the rear cockpit has a full instrument panel while the front cockpit has an abbreviated one.  You can fly it from the front but not as well as you can from the rear, hence when one is flown solo, it is usually done from the rear seat.

[PR19_Kit]

A friend of mine, a modeller and a pilot for the Shuttleworth Trust, says that a Tiger Moth is better to fly aerobatically flown solo from the rear seat. A) Because you have a better view and B) Because the CG is better placed.

[NARSES2]

I have a plan for the new Airfix one when it's out 

[Runway ? ...]

FYI, if you watch the Movie Thunderbird 6, they Used the Tiger Moth as Thunderbird 6 at the End of the Film! Thought you should know. Dan

This aircraft will always be Thunderbird Six.

[pyro-manic]

My understanding though, is that the instructors position, in the rear cockpit has a full instrument panel while the front cockpit has an abbreviated one.  You can fly it from the front but not as well as you can from the rear, hence when one is flown solo, it is usually done from the rear seat.

I suspect it would be a fairly simple matter to switch/add full instrumentation to the other 'pit.

[jcf]

No need to move anything, the Tiger Moth had full duplicate instrumentation and controls in both cockpits.
Nor is the rear pit a designated instructor's position, instructor and trainee could be in either depending
on what was being taught, i.e. for blind flying instruction the hood was fitted over the rear cockpit and
that was the student's seat.

The preference for flying it from the rear seat was, as Kit stated, visibility and CG balance.
A colleague of my father owned a Tiggie for decades, and I was around her a few times so
I am somewhat personally familiar with the aircraft. Never got to fly in her though. 

Go here and read all about it:
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1931/1931%20-%201197.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1931/1931%20-%201198.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1931/1931%20-%201199.html
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1931/1931%20-%201200.html

[Mossie]

Was a radial ever fitted to a Tiger Moth?  I know a few models in the Moth series were fitted with radials, but I've never seen one on a Tiggie.  Armstrong Siddely Lynx maybe, similar to the Hawk Moth?