Twin engine Avro Shackleton

[kitnut617]

I never knew that the B-25 was powered by Griffon engines,

They weren't

Avro Canada built the B-25 during WW2.

I really don't know where you get your information from, no B-25 was built in Canada by any company. And Avro Canada was not even a company name during the war, what became Avro Canada was called Victory Aircraft and was created by the Canadian Government.  They built Ansons and Lancasters ---

I wonder if the nose section of the B-25 will fit on the shack and the shack wings fit on the Mitchell, I'll have to buy one and find out. Unless you guys know?

Are you ready for this,  a Shackleton forward fuselage is 8'-0" wide by 11'-9" deep, a B-25 forward fuselage is 4'-6" wide by 7'-0" deep (measuremants taken from just behing the cockpits on both.  A 1/72 Shackleton forward fuselage would probably fit on a 1/48 B-25

[McColm]

Thanks for that.

[Captain Canada]

Now that I have a boat load of Shaks coming I think a Griffon engined MR.3 nosed B-25 is in order 

[wuzak]

The Sterling was also ear-marked for just two very powerful engines (for those days), so a large diameter propeller was to be used, same as the Manchester and Halifax.  Something like 16 to 17 feet diameter (which is comparable to the props on an A400M [or a Hughes Hercules])

The Stirling was always going to be a 4 engine design - like the Supermarine 316,/317, which was to built to the same requirement.

Shorts even had a 1/2 scale flying model built - the S31

[eatthis]

A Stirling has some pretty tall main gear legs too, and it wasn't for prop clearance issues either. They built it like that so that the stupidly small wing could generate enough lift for take-off with the hefty bomb load it was designed for.

A Vulcan has pretty tall legs too, certainly compared to its stable-mate, the Victor.

ive got long legs compared to the victor 

[McColm]

Thanks for the pictures, there's two new Stirling kits being released. A bit steep in price, but better mouldings than the Airfix kit.
Plans were drawn up for a Super Stirling , so that could be Whiffed.

I still think a twin engined Shackleton could be built. Or even a three engined with the third in the nose just like the Ju-52 or Trimotor.

[NARSES2]

Now I've seen pictures of the Stirling mockup on the ground but never in the air. If I'm honest I thought it was a "layout" demonstrator and didn't realise it flew !

Thank you Wuzak 

[Captain Canada]

Argh I'm at work and can't see the pics !

Maybe I'll have to sneak out.....

[Captain Canada]

That's pretty neat ! The prop shafts look high of center.....wonder if that had any effect in the flying characteristics ?

[kitnut617]

the 1/2 scale was powered by Pobjoy motors Todd

[jcf]

The S.31 had geared Pobjoy Niagaras, originally Mk.III, later Mk.IV.
Terry Moore built a 1/36th S.31 from the 1/72 Airfix Stirling many moons ago.

The S.31 flight tests led to the lengthening of the Stirling landing gear, and it was not
because the wing was too small, it was a matter of wing incidence. The Stirling wing
incidence was optimised for minimal cruise drag, which, as the weight of the production
design increased would have resulted in a take-off run that was longer than desired. By the
time it was determined that an increase of incidence to 6.5° from 3.5° was needed, it was
too late as production tool-up was already underway, Gouge's compromise was to lengthen
the landing gear to gain the desired 3° on the ground.

In terms of lift, the large 48% of wing chord Gouge flaps compensated for the reduction in span from
the design in the original tender, even if the wing-span had been retained at the original length of 112'
the incidence issue would have remained. The requirement for short takeoff from grass strips
hampered the design more than the hangaring issue.

BTW, if one wants to model the original design, the wing was basically similar to the Sunderland.

[McColm]

A couple of floats instead of wheels and one at the rear. Turrets on the the roof- fore and aft, Coastal Command colours.
A Shackleton float plane has been debated over on another topic, could work if the weapons bay became the middle float with floats on each wing.

[kitnut617]

I think if I was to do a twin engine Shackleton I'd use two A.S. Pythons. And because the air intakes for that engine are at the rear end of it, I'd have an intake system like how you find it on a Herald, with the inlet duct offset to the inner side of the nacelle and then have the u/c mounted in the nacelle right next to the exhaust in the outside side of the nacelle.

[kitnut617]

A couple of floats instead of wheels and one at the rear. Turrets on the the roof- fore and aft, Coastal Command colours.
A Shackleton float plane has been debated over on another topic, could work if the weapons bay became the middle float with floats on each wing.

See here:

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,16956.0/highlight,avro+nottingham.html

[pyro-manic]

What about a pair of Double Mambas? That would look quite interesting. Also has the possibility of shutting down two of the turbines for slow-speed patrolling, Nimrod-style