R.A.F. S.E.5, FINISHED Finnish Ilmavoimat, 1927

[nighthunter]

Okay, so I managed to pick up an SE5 kit today, and I really got it for it's Whiffing potential, not knowing it came with two options for either the Hispano-Suiza or Wolsey engines... and a spinner cover that is not a wartime option, but the kit only supplies decals for 1 option, lol.

Here is what I was thinking, 4 bladed propeller was seen on later aircraft, such as the P-51, but was used during WW1 on H-S SE5's. Was the reason for going back to a 2 bladed prop on the Viper engines for speed and power vs weight of the 2 extra blades? I am SO Whiffing this kite, but want to try something original... and not a pusher. Fishing for ideas, honestly, and here's what I have:

Crimson Skies type 'verse after WW1, making this SE.5 a pirate kite.
Find someone with WW1 aircraft floats and turn it into a Float based scout With a Medium Blue and dope scheme
Somehow scratchbuild skis for a harsh Russian winter and make it a Polar Bear Expedition kite, complete with winter scheme
NightFighter for home defense, to fend off the nasty Hun Zeps IE Green Dope with Night undersides
Turn it into a Finnish War for Independence kite, see ski idea for other reference, maybe attach skis to the wheels like on other kites
USAAS/AC kites only with Whiff paint schemes
Irish Air Corps Whiff (they apparently did operate them, but haven't seen picture proof)
Whiff SAAF kite for a colonial Africa Conflict with neighbors (whiff scheme)
RNZAF Home Defense kite

I also have an incomplete Fokker D.VII that I can take MG's off of and add to the SE.5... whiffing it that much more

And that's about it...

[Modelling_Mushi]

All sounds good, there should be many more WWI whiffs, I mean the whole period was full of weird and wonderful that anything is possible.

You could muck around with the wings if you liked. The French were full on with sesqui-planes (the lower wing was smaller in chord and span than the upper, such as the early SPADs) and parasols (upper wing only with the fuselage suspended below such as the Moraines), the Dutch [I beleive Antony Fokker was Dutch] went down a tubular spar route that needed no bracing wires (see Fokker Tripe and DVII), the Brits has a thing for triplanes that was copied by the Germans (Sopwith triplane and the afore mentioned Fokker tripe) and the Italians were just crazy.

Not too sure about the airscrew, but one thing I have never actually seen on a WWI aircraft is a 3 bladed airscrew. Don't know if it is harder to manufacture or harder to balance than 2 and 4 bladers, but you could do this.

Also I can't recall any single seat scout aircraft in WWI having a tricycle undercarriage, they were all tail draggers (I think). Another possible avenue.

Ciao

Andrew

[Old Wombat]

I think it's a balance issue.

ISTR reading somewhere, some-when, that the 4-blade wooden props were made as 2 2-blade units, which were each tested for balance with weights added as required, then joined together at the hub. As each blade was balanced against the opposite blade the prop was balanced over-all.

Unfortunately that could have been regarding wooden powered flying model prop's because I'm pretty sure the rough era is the same as when I was marginally into that (a lot of years ago).

[NARSES2]

I built the Revell (I think) kit of the S.E. 5a as a parasol monoplane a few years ago. May even be a photo on here somewhere

[nighthunter]

Please, allowe me clarify, it is being built as an S.E.5, straight OOB, for the most part. It's whether or not I add an MG or two and use the 4 blade on the Viper or two blade on the H-S engine, etc with either floats, ski's or parasite fighter trapeze hook, that sort of thing. Thanks guys! All wonderful Ideas!

[jcf]

Basic rule of thumb.
4-blade prop: geared engine, high thrust-line, H-S or Wolseley
2-blade prop: un-geared engine, low thrust-line, "

But the larger diameter two-blade props could be found on geared machines, and early-style
machines can be found with late-style undercarriage etc., etc.

The main reason for the four-blade units is that they were standard practice with R.A.F.

The single Vickers gun was because the original version of the Contantinesco interrupt
gear could only operate a single gun at a time. The over-wing Lewis on Foster mount
was the solution, on geared engine machines the mount has longer legs due to the
higher thrust-line of the geared engine.

- Hare, Royal Aircraft Factory

One experimental gun installation mentioned in King's Armament of British Aircraft 1909-1939,
"... the Eeman triple-gun mounting, wherein the three Lewis guns fired forwards and upwards through
apertures in the centre-section."

[nighthunter]

Jon, if you understand it, can you dumb it down for me, please?

[jcf]

For most inline and V-engines.
Un-geared or direct drive: thrust-line (an imaginary line that passes through the centre of the propeller as seen in profile) is in line with the crankshaft of the engine.


Direct drive Kirkham B-6

Geared drive: the thrust-line is above or below the crankshaft as the power is transmitted from the crankshaft through a reduction gear train that offsets the propeller from the line of the crankshaft.


Geared drive Kirkham BG-6 (the B-6 with a reduction gear added)

For the S.E.-5a it means the centre-line of the propeller varied vertically depending on whether it had
a geared or un-geared engine. The original radiator design only allowed for a single position, the
standardized two-part production design could accommodate either.

I see that you're in Tacoma, I'm up in Everett, do you ever go to the IPMS or NWSM meetings?

[nighthunter]

Jon, no, as I am not a member, although I was at the Spring Show in Renton. A lot of fantastic modelers there, and some great inspiration.

Thank you for explaining it to me.

[jcf]

You're welcome.

You don't need to be a member to come to the meetings, they are open to everyone.
While I am a member of IPMS-Seattle, I'm not a member of IPMS-USA. The meetings
are the second Saturday of the month at the North Bellevue Community Center.
http://ipms-seattle.org/map.php

NWSM, North West Scale Modelers, has no membership requirements, and few 'rules', it
meets at 7:00PM the first Thursday of each month in the Red Barn at the Museum of Flight,
which is the same night as the Museum's extended hours Free Thursday.
All are welcome. NWSM's big annual event is the two day show at the Museum each February,
which is purely a display not a contest.
http://www.museumofflight.org/event/2014/feb/08/clone-2013-northwest-scale-modelers-show
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/northwestscalemodelers/info

Maybe I'll see you around.

Cheers,
Jon

[Captain Canada]

WWI floats should be easy enough to scratch, they're all boxy aren't they ?

[nighthunter]

Not quite, LOL!

[jcf]

Some period skis:

[nighthunter]

Thanks, Jon!

[jcf]

Looking through a box of my old mags, came across this drawing in Aeroplane from 1977 which
admirably illustrates the differences between early and late airframes and direct-drive vs. geared
engines. I added the text.