Aircraft that Britain Shouldn't have had

[PR19_Kit]

It's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to cover this particular subject without including politics.

Sir George Edwards said of the TSR2 'All aircraft have four dimensions, length, width, height and politics. The TSR2 only got the first three correct'................

[pyro-manic]

early 70's F111 & F4 still in production

But the Pig was a political non-starter, as has already been said. And the Phantom is as old as the Buccaneer! No chance of getting that approved. Furthermore, both are American, and not really plausible given the financial state of the country at the time.

[XV107]

early 70's F111 & F4 still in production

If that's in response to the query about alternatives.

The F-111K had been cancelled once. There was no way that the government, even a Heath government, was going to revisit that. The fact that to do so would involve abandoning the MRCA project, complete with the effect upon the British aviation industry and jobs that'd have had (even had licence production been arranged) meant that once cancelled, it wouldn't come back.

And the F-4 couldn't deliver against the requirement for the strike/attack aircraft to penetrate enemy air defences at 100ft AGL and to deliver weapons accurately without a major [read very, very expensive] upgrade. The Tornado was the first RAF aircraft which could, in fact, meet its operational declaration day or night and in all weathers.

So again, when measured against a host of historical, anecdotal and documentary evidence which suggests otherwise, I can't quite see how the charge of mediocrity stacks up.

[scooter]

early 70's F111 & F4 still in production

But the Pig was a political non-starter, as has already been said. And the Phantom is as old as the Buccaneer! No chance of getting that approved. Furthermore, both are American, and not really plausible given the financial state of the country at the time.

Nor, do I think, the US Navy was going to sell Britain A-6Es.  Hell, AFAIK, the Intruder was never sold to anyone

[DarrenP]

F4 J would have been a better replacement for the lightning

[PR19_Kit]

F4 J would have been a better replacement for the lightning

74 Sqdn would agree with you, because that's EXACTLY what they did.

[NARSES2]

It's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to cover this particular subject without including politics.

I appreciate that Kit but we had started to move away from the politics of procurement into some more comparative areas which could have opened an entirely new can of worms.

Chris

[martinbayer]

Sir George Edwards said of the TSR2 'All aircraft have four dimensions, length, width, height and politics. The TSR2 only got the first three correct'................

Wasn't that Sir Sidney Camm?

Martin

[PR19_Kit]

I don't think so, Sir George was the Chairman of BAC who built it, so he'd be more likely to have said it than a competing chairman.

[martinbayer]

Hmm - every single reference I found, such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Camm, claims it was Camm...

Martin

[PR19_Kit]

Whatever, it's the thought behind it that I was trying to emphasise.

[McColm]

Didn't Maggie have a go and get the TSR2 project into production?

[XV107]

Not quite - a chap called de Vere, who was involved with (owned?) an aviation company, put forward this idea in the late 70s. Long story short - this was eventually run in Air Pictorial in 1981, but with unspecified MPs asking Mrs T to restore the aircraft. It 's covered in detail (not that there's much of that about the idea to be working with£ in Damian Burke's book which gives, IMHO, the best account of the suggested reappearance of a very expensive aeroplane (in the midst of a financial crisis and the Nott defence review...)

[McColm]

Thanks for clearing that up.