avatar_kitbasher

Aircraft the US should have bought from Europe

Started by kitbasher, July 25, 2014, 11:07:37 PM

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PR19_Kit

Quote from: Weaver on April 10, 2023, 05:29:38 AM....... plus there's the eternal problem of lobbyting and NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome in US politics.


But they still expect everyone else to buy THEIR stuff. :(

Trade it isn't.

(sorry, that's a tad political)
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

Weaver

Quote from: PR19_Kit on April 10, 2023, 07:51:52 AM
Quote from: Weaver on April 10, 2023, 05:29:38 AM....... plus there's the eternal problem of lobbyting and NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome in US politics.


But they still expect everyone else to buy THEIR stuff. :(

Trade it isn't.

(sorry, that's a tad political)

Well, they fight hard to keep jobs and capabilities in their own country and if you don't, then that's your decision. Frankly I wish we had a bit more American/French ruthless self-interest in the UK.
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

Old Wombat

Quote from: Weaver on April 10, 2023, 12:53:55 PM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on April 10, 2023, 07:51:52 AM
Quote from: Weaver on April 10, 2023, 05:29:38 AM....... plus there's the eternal problem of lobbyting and NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome in US politics.


But they still expect everyone else to buy THEIR stuff. :(

Trade it isn't.

(sorry, that's a tad political)

Well, they fight hard to keep jobs and capabilities in their own country and if you don't, then that's your decision. Frankly I wish we had a bit more American/French ruthless self-interest in the UK.

Ditto here in Aus (although we seem to be developing a bit, lately).
Has a life outside of What-If & wishes it would stop interfering!

"The purpose of all War is Peace" - St. Augustine

veritas ad mortus veritas est

McColm

I think that the BA-146 was a missed opportunity for the American military along with the Westland-Augusta  EH-101 Merlin helicopter, both of which could have been built underlìcence.

jcf

Quote from: PR19_Kit on April 10, 2023, 07:51:52 AM
Quote from: Weaver on April 10, 2023, 05:29:38 AM....... plus there's the eternal problem of lobbyting and NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome in US politics.


But they still expect everyone else to buy THEIR stuff. :(

Trade it isn't.

(sorry, that's a tad political)
Trade isn't a matter of tit for tat and it never has been, it's a matter of gaining as much as you can while
losing as little as possible.  

PR19_Kit

Yeah, and that's obvious what's happened for many years. :(
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

MiB

My virtual repaint site: http://hangarofmib.blogspot.com
--------------------------------------------------------
-"Unlimited technology from the whole universe, and we cruise around in a Ford POS?"

-"Nothing is as it seems, guy!"

Weaver

Quote from: McColm on April 11, 2023, 04:15:58 AMI think that the BA-146 was a missed opportunity for the American military along with the Westland-Augusta  EH-101 Merlin helicopter, both of which could have been built underlìcence.

There was a proposal to make a carrier-onboard-delivery version of the 146 for the US Navy! Now that would have been a sight to see!

Of course, they very nearly bought EH-101s as the 'Marine One' presidential helicopters, before the deal got cancelled due to internal US politics.

Speaking of which: A330TTs as tankers... (ducks and runs...)
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

McColm

I was hoping to see the Airbus 340 as the follow-on models to the E-3, JSTARS and tanker versions rather than the twin engine upgrades.
I wonder if the Ba-146 was considered as a replacement for the Grumman Hawkeye, it would be an interesting whiff to build.
The USA Special Forces have flown the Westland Lynx but the US Navy and the US Army could have been the major customers.

jcf

Quote from: Weaver on April 11, 2023, 05:33:11 PM
Quote from: McColm on April 11, 2023, 04:15:58 AMI think that the BA-146 was a missed opportunity for the American military along with the Westland-Augusta  EH-101 Merlin helicopter, both of which could have been built underlìcence.

There was a proposal to make a carrier-onboard-delivery version of the 146 for the US Navy! Now that would have been a sight to see!

Of course, they very nearly bought EH-101s as the 'Marine One' presidential helicopters, before the deal got cancelled due to internal US politics.

Speaking of which: A330TTs as tankers... (ducks and runs...)
In the last case, who knows what would have happened if the Senators and Representatives from
Alabama hadn't been able to push the DoD to change the requirements on the first go round to fit
the A330 into the contest. A lot of factors were rewritten, not just the airframe size, that meant the
A330 was the only type that fit the rewritten requirements. It was a political goat rope from day one
and Boeing was in the right when they challenged the results.

As to the EH-101 as the new USMC VIP helicopter, it's only Marine One when POTUS is on board,
its cancellation was inevitable and ties into the old competition between Sikorsky in Stratford, CT
and Vertol (Boeing-Vertol/Boeing Helicopters) in Philadelphia, PA. Any time those two companies
go head-to-head there's going to be a challenge, and if the companies don't bring it, the pols will. 
;D