Tracked Boxer

[Wardukw]

Mossie ..ok the first one i freakin love ..thats brilliant  but i aint going to copy that ..he deserves that one to himself .

I replaced the entire gun on my Object 279 with a alloy one from RB and the muzzle is brass and just a total work of art ..the entire model looks better now for it .


Phill

[Weaver]

Okay, here's an idea I'd have liked to do in 1/72nd but you can't get one of the kits in that scale so it's not going to happen. However, you can get them in 1/35th, so you can have the idea if you want.

Chassis : M107/M110/M578 (the very low "platform" chassis with a big arty gun on it) Italeri do a kit.

Turret : AMX-13 converted to 105mm L7 or equivalent. Heller do an AMX-13/75 (with SS-11s) and I'm sure you can get a 105mm aftermarket barrel for something or other.

Put the turret on the chassis and you have a very low profile tank destroyer which looks enough like a stock AMX-13 to make people do a double take.....

[Wardukw]

Oh yes your on to something there and as for the bits and pieces ..not a problem ..i have 6 M110's and 3 M107 SPG's ,,,the chassis is not a problem ..the 105mm isnt a problem either ...i have a heap of those ..the AMX kit tho is getting pretty hard to find so if need be a turret can be built from scratch ..i like where you are going with this ..but i am thinking bigger ,,128mm main gun sort of thing but the rest of the idea ...yeah liking it alot .so lets use your ideas with my ideas and see what these give birth too
Thanks man .. you just made my life easier here 

[Mossie]

Mossie ..ok the first one i freakin love ..thats brilliant  but i aint going to copy that ..he deserves that one to himself .

I replaced the entire gun on my Object 279 with a alloy one from RB and the muzzle is brass and just a total work of art ..the entire model looks better now for it .


Phill

The first one wasn't Martin's own creation, there was a garage kit of it.  It was a real project, but I know nothing about it. If you like the articulated layout, the UDES XX20 might be an inspiration, even made it to prototype:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=udes+xx20&biw=1680&bih=858&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=OuFYVNj8CaL_iQLJ-YGwAg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#imgdii=_

Several more here:
http://survincity.com/2010/09/two-in-one-articulated-tanks/

Shame about the 279, it would have been excellent kitbash fodder!   Seriously, have you any pics of the finished model?  It's a wonderfully odd design.

[Weaver]

Oh yes your on to something there and as for the bits and pieces ..not a problem ..i have 6 M110's and 3 M107 SPG's ,,,the chassis is not a problem ..the 105mm isnt a problem either ...i have a heap of those ..the AMX kit tho is getting pretty hard to find so if need be a turret can be built from scratch ..i like where you are going with this ..but i am thinking bigger ,,128mm main gun sort of thing but the rest of the idea ...yeah liking it alot .so lets use your ideas with my ideas and see what these give birth too
Thanks man .. you just made my life easier here  

There's a fair few AMX-13/75/SS-11s on ebay, but I didn't notice where they are. However if you want to scratch the turret and use a different gun, go right ahead! The key feature in my mind is to NOT build up the rear of the chassis to driver's hatch height. The turret should be as low as possible, which means it needs an unusual design to overcome the "step" in front of it, hence my choice of the AMX-13. Basically, this is an SPAT gun in the style of a classic SP arty vehicle.

Re the gun calibre, if you're keeping it American, you could either a) use the 120mm gun off the M-103 heavy tank, or b) claim that it's a 127mm naval gun on a modified deck mount, or c) make it a surface-to-surface version of the M1 120mm anti-aircraft gun.

[jcf]

Oh yes your on to something there and as for the bits and pieces ..not a problem ..i have 6 M110's and 3 M107 SPG's ,,,the chassis is not a problem ..the 105mm isnt a problem either ...i have a heap of those ..the AMX kit tho is getting pretty hard to find so if need be a turret can be built from scratch ..i like where you are going with this ..but i am thinking bigger ,,128mm main gun sort of thing but the rest of the idea ...yeah liking it alot .so lets use your ideas with my ideas and see what these give birth too
Thanks man .. you just made my life easier here  

There's a fair few AMX-13/75/SS-11s on ebay, but I didn't notice where they are. However if you want to scratch the turret and use a different gun, go right ahead! The key feature in my mind is to NOT build up the rear of the chassis to driver's hatch height. The turret should be as low as possible, which means it needs an unusual design to overcome the "step" in front of it, hence my choice of the AMX-13. Basically, this is an SPAT gun in the style of a classic SP arty vehicle.

Re the gun calibre, if you're keeping it American, you could either a) use the 120mm gun off the M-103 heavy tank, or b) claim that it's a 127mm naval gun on a modified deck mount, or c) make it a surface-to-surface version of the M1 120mm anti-aircraft gun.

The HobbyBoss EBR FL-10 kit is another source for the turret.

The rear of the M107 chassis would probably need to be built up as it appears that the AMX
oscillating turret may have as much down in the hull as it does above.

[buzzbomb]

Just do whatever you want.
Love looking at your stuff

[Wardukw]

Ok here is the idea ... something big ..something low and something very powerful and you guys must know me well enough by now to know i really dont like things being to small ,,so this is the idea ..stretched and widened Panther hull ... highly modified M109 turret ..128mm main gun and another thing i am thinking about is the road wheels .. King Tiger road wheels and tracks ,,that last bit is just an idea right now ,,might be used ..might not be but its not going to be a Stug type machine ..the turret will work ...the brain keeps ticking thats for sure .
Many thanks to the other blokes for their ideas ,,i am going to use quite a few of those on this build ..if i can get this how i want it ..it wont be any higher than a Panzer IV ..this one will be a wee challenge but i am looking forward to this .

Phill 

[Old Wombat]

No, no, no,no, no, dude, not another big German Jagdpanzer!

It's gotta be British or American, something developed to counter the rumoured supertank about to roll out of Jerry's factories & turn the tide of the war!



My ramblings for a British version:

It has to be front engined, to keep the rear low (think Merkava).

Use the running gear from the Tortoise (A39) - use the T28 for a US version.

As an initial stop-gap gun you could use the British QF 5.25" (= 127mm) DP naval gun but in a low-angle, low-profile TD turret. This gives you a very high velocity (Naval: 2,672 ft/s (814 m/s), Army AA: 2,800 ft/s (850 m/s)) gun which used separate projectiles & cased charges, so you could change your ammo type on the fly & carry more of each different type of shell used (APDS, HEAT, HE, etc.) for a given number of cartridges. Fit something like a semi-auto loader & you'd have a sustained RoF up around the 8 rnds/min mark.
Quote from wiki:

The gun fired an 80 lb (36 kg) shell, considered the largest that a gun crew could handle easily enough to give the rate of fire needed for anti-aircraft use. The ballistic performances were very good, as the maximum range was in excess of 21,000 metres and the AP projectile could penetrate 3 in (76 mm) at around 9,500 metres.

Given that the "AP" projectile above is elsewhere described in the text as a semi armour-piercing projectile and that the average TD action generally occurred at less than 500 metres .....

This could be followed up with a 5.25" tank gun derived by combining features of the QF 5,25" & the OQF 20-pdr.






Guy

[Wardukw]

OK trust a bloody Australian to throw a spanner in the works  ... i have over 200 German models ..i am half German but yes i will admit a change aint a bad thing ..the problem i am going to face here is the total lack of much in the way of knackered British armour in my stash .. i do have a Challenger 1 sitting in the stash and the chassis aint that high in the chassis department but i will need to take a close look at that gun ..i have knowin for years that the Brit 5.25in is a nasty piece of work and as a anti tank gun ..utterly deadly ..why the Brits never used it as one in WWII is beyond me .
Now i am not going to destroy my Tortoise ,,that thing wasnt cheep  and i am sick to death of building easy eight suspension so i think a Challenger should work .
Instead of going backwards in time ..why not go forward in it instead ..build a ultra modern tank hunter..yeah i think that will work .

Phill

[Old Wombat]

My pleasure!



I'm about ¹/₈ German, if that helps?

(Mind you, the rest is mostly Czech & Slovak, plus about another ¹/₈ Scots, with some "British" (English, Scots, Welsh - not sure about Irish) thrown in there).

Projecting the concept forward (or even sideways), rather than back, isn't bad, either.




Guy

[Wardukw]

Interesting mix Guy ... i the other half is Italian ..now this is a mix to worry about but least that side designs some damn nice cars lol
The other side has got the cars down nicely as well and many other wonderful toys to throw into the mix .

Yeah i think i will head off into the future with this one ..this is going to be interesting and a lot of fun too

Phill

[rickshaw]

5,25in?  Bah!  The British were seriously looking at a 7.2in SP gun in the FV4005 Conway, which was built on a Centurion hull with a automatic gun.

FV4005 Stage 1, 183mm gun, limited traverse With automatic loading

Model of Conway at Bovington

FV4005, Stage 2 Turret mounted on Centurion Hull

[Old Wombat]

Yup, that's a big gun, alright!

But we're looking at fitting it into a turreted tank destroyer with a low-profile here, Brian, & I'd suggest that the 7.2in Conway SPG is anything but.

[Old Wombat]

the other half is Italian

German & Italian, well you obviously got the genetic combination that designs well-engineered cool-looking vehicles.

The other combination being the one that designs over-complicated, unreliable boxy/bulbous-ugly ... faecal containers.