The American Hogsback bomber - Korea 1950

[kitnut617]

Lots of clarificartion there Robert, thanks so much. 

The 'Big Book' usually shows which kit got reboxed by another manufacturer, but it doesn't explain why all the kit parts are practically interchangeable (That's not including the latest kits from Special Hobby)

[kitnut617]

It doesn't help the modeller that so many drawings of the P-82 are drwan with both props rotating the SAME way, presumably because the lazy draughtsmen (or women...) copied the nose froma P-51 drawing.

That could possibly originate from the 'Aircraft of the Fighting Powers' Vol.VII book, the 3-View shows them to rotate that way.  The information that they used at the time could possibly be because the XP-82 did have the props turning that way before they changed it.  But I think the story about it not being able to get off the ground is a bit of a myth, because the aircraft was used and tested with a number of load-outs while the props did turn opposite to how production aircraft were configured (there's quite a few photos around to show this)

[PR19_Kit]

It doesn't help the modeller that so many drawings of the P-82 are drwan with both props rotating the SAME way, presumably because the lazy draughtsmen (or women...) copied the nose froma P-51 drawing.

That could possibly originate from the 'Aircraft of the Fighting Powers' Vol.VII book, the 3-View shows them to rotate that way.  The information that they used at the time could possibly be because the XP-82 did have the props turning that way before they changed it.  But I think the story about it not being able to get off the ground is a bit of a myth, because the aircraft was used and tested with a number of load-outs while the props did turn opposite to how production aircraft were configured (there's quite a few photos around to show this)

The book I have that mentioned the decreased lift said the aircraft took much more runway to get off than predicted with the outward turning props.

[loupgarou]

Well here's something interesting out of the 'Big Book' -- all 1/72 F-82's: Aurora, Frog (reboxed by BFI, Novo, Revell), Hobbycraft, Monogram (reboxed by Arc en Ciel, Hasegawa, Idea, Taka)

Edit: Looking at the listings on Scale Mates, the Frog kit was only produced as 'test shots' -- which is probably why no one has seen a proper boxing from them, for that it would have been Novo, because this was the company that was set up after Frog closed down.  It's basically Frog but under a different name.

Edit2: The 'Big Book' has the Frog kit listed as F405 (TM), TM being 'Test Moulds' and these appeared right when Frog closed down.

Can confirm it, I have a Novo one.
BTW; what's the Big Book? John Burns' PAK 20?

[kitnut617]

Can confirm it, I have a Novo one.

It would be interesting to compare the parts  

BTW; what's the Big Book? John Burns' PAK 20?

Yes     plus I have the four addendums for it (there aren't anymore after that because John Burns retired)

[PR19_Kit]

Can confirm it, I have a Novo one.

I'd LOVE to see some pics of that! 

I didn't know any got out into the world and makes me wonder why Novo didn't keep on making them.

Or maybe the ones they DID sell were ex-FROG moulded test shots and they didn't have the moulds?

[loupgarou]

Can confirm it, I have a Novo one.

I'd LOVE to see some pics of that! 

I didn't know any got out into the world and makes me wonder why Novo didn't keep on making them.

Or maybe the ones they DID sell were ex-FROG moulded test shots and they didn't have the moulds?

Your wish is my command (or something like that  ) my dear Sir. Here you are.
BTW, I didn't know it was considered rare, I supposed had been reissued by all the usual post-Frog brands: Chematic, Eastern Express, maybe Ark, Maquette etc... BUT if Revell has reissued it, as posted here, maybe Revell bought the moulds, so no more east Europe issues.
NOTE:
- usually Novo kits have the Frog Fxxx item number, this one has a 5-digit number.
- instructions look froggish to me
- drawing 3 of the instructions specify which propeller must go where, very serious.

   

[kitnut617]

Well I think we can dispel any connection there to any of the Revell/Monogram/Hobbycraft boxings that I have. But it's definitely an Allison powered version --

- usually Novo kits have the Frog Fxxx item number, this one has a 5-digit number.

Not according to the 'Big Book' they all start with 76 or 78 and are 5 digit numbers

Thanks for posting that --  

[PR19_Kit]

That's terrific, thanks so much. 

I feel like I'm in a time warp. 

[loupgarou]

- usually Novo kits have the Frog Fxxx item number, this one has a 5-digit number.

Not according to the 'Big Book' they all start with 76 or 78 and are 5 digit numbers

Thanks for posting that --  

Oiuch, I suppose I got confused with some authentic soviet russian Frog-spawn I have that sport in cyrillic the Frog cat. number.
BUT I have the Novo kits:
Tupolev SB-2 F176
Lancaster 1/96 F 359
Comet 4 F356
Caravelle F357
Shell Welder F137

I mean with the F number written big. So at least SOME Novo retained the Frog numbering.
Paolo

[kitnut617]

Very interesting Paolo, you need to send photos of those boxings to Jeff Garrity of Rare-Plane Detective because he has taken over the PAK-20 book updates, as none of those appear in the 'Big Book'. I think he would be very interested in them, especially that F-82 boxing -- 

[loupgarou]

Very interesting Paolo, you need to send photos of those boxings to Jeff Garrity of Rare-Plane Detective because he has taken over the PAK-20 book updates, as none of those appear in the 'Big Book'. I think he would be very interested in them, especially that F-82 boxing -- 

Do you mean Garrity has taken over updating the book, or that he's just selling the old updates?
I have studied Pak20 quite a lot. Unfortunately, maybe because California is nearer Japan than to Europe, it appears (to me) that there are a lot of errors and/or omissions concerning european brands, and even more in my main interest: models form 1/87 to 1/100. 
Even if Garrity is rewriting the book, I'd have to maintain a continuous stream of infos and photos for a while, I am afraid 
Pak20 even affirms (page 11) that Trumpeter's An-12 is the same as KVZ/Plasticart!  (only about 30 years between them) and ignore the Revell reissue of the Tamiya B-52 (a big one to miss  )

DISCLAIMERS:
1) I don't have the updates
2) my comments don't mean I don't appreciate the enormous work done by Burns, I reckon it's impossible to discover and list everything, and many of the kits and brands he lists are very obscure (to say the least)

[loupgarou]

Anyway, For Your Eyes Only...

       

[NARSES2]

I don't think I've seen any of those boxings ? Maybe the Comet but the others

[kitnut617]

Very interesting Paolo, you need to send photos of those boxings to Jeff Garrity of Rare-Plane Detective because he has taken over the PAK-20 book updates, as none of those appear in the 'Big Book'. I think he would be very interested in them, especially that F-82 boxing -- 

Do you mean Garrity has taken over updating the book, or that he's just selling the old updates?

DISCLAIMERS:
1) I don't have the updates
2) my comments don't mean I don't appreciate the enormous work done by Burns, I reckon it's impossible to discover and list everything, and many of the kits and brands he lists are very obscure (to say the least)

John Burns never claimed that his publication was perfect, he was always looking for confirmation of kit numbers so he could update his book. After he published the book in 2002, he put out four addendum booklets (the last one in 2007), these had corrections and/or added items listed. He managed to list over 34,000 plastic model aircraft kits while putting together the book.

Jeff Garrity (afaik) was the only place where you could buy these books, and when John retired he was left with the project.  I had tried to contact John one time because I had spotted a couple of thing (because I had a boxing in my hand usually) but couldn't get hold of him (he usually responded) so I contacted Garrity to find out if there was a change in contact info, it was then Jeff told me that John had retired and wasn't doing it anymore but if I had any new info on kits I was to send the info to him.  Therefore I'm assuming that Jeff will publish another addendum some time in the future. 

Which is why I said send your pics to him -- just mention you have new or corrected info for the book.