Blackburn (BAE) Buccaneer

[Radish]

Well, a new cockpit at least. The old Buc was steam powered, so a glass one would be a necessary upgrade. Lots to do in the Airfix kit!
Then raid some appropriate weapons from Hasegawa and add lots of pods/aerials. Some research on real Weazels necessary for that, but some artistic licence too. I did a Wicked Wizard Mick-Coyne 21 Fishface of the Irish Air Corps last year that started my "electric" aircraft collection. That had a few pods and an awesome armament load. But then, the engine/fuel was boosted by the Scots?irish?Celtic superdrug (used in dilute quantities by humans too) called Suppalot. :k Then a great colour scheme on the Buc of low-viz greys with spot repainting, etc.. OOOOOHHHH!!I'm getting quite excited about this

[Captain Canada]

Sure, why not ? This is what if ! Would look cool in a whole slew of USN/ USAF colour schemes. Vietnam lizard, ala B-57 as well......


And that old Brick could crash right through a gondola and keep on flying, rather than just cut the wires !

And maybe Canada could have snagged a few off the US production line as well.....

Cheers,
      The Newfie

[Radish]

Love the Falklands idea. The Jolly Roger would be ideal too. As for Israeli.....well, it'd look super in the triple desert colours of the early 70s, but a later modified version with extra pods, bulges ( should have even more bulges than a MiG.....a sort of Bucc with bubonic plague?) carrying the F-16-type scheme with low-viz insignia?
Or how about a Brit airliner.....not too "up" on these, a Comet, York or Hastings or a BAC-111 or VC-10 (YES!!!) with lots of aerials/radomes in an AEW/electronic surveillance role? All grey like IDF C-47s. :l

[Waynos]

I have read that the US played a large part in the early stages of the development of the NA 39 and that Blackburn were led to believe that there would be a US order for the type with possible licence production a la Canberra. What if the USN bought the aircraft instead of the A-6? How long might it have lasted in service? Combat in Vietnam is almost a certainty but what of other versions? There would for instance never have been an EA-6 so presumably a Buccaneer variant would have been developed by....Lockheed?
What do you think, any mileage in this idea?

[nev]

As I remember, there were technical discussions between Blackburn and Grumman, but they were technology sharing rather than buying each others aircraft - a USN buy of Buccs was never on the cards - but like Toad sez, this is what-if.  We have had discussions on the Bucc before if you do a search you should find it.  The Marineflieger wanted them, but got the widow maker in the intrests of "commonality"

[Joe C-P]

I was thinking the USN would buy it in a reciprocal agreement with the UK buying F-4s, and lasting as long as the A-6 did in reality. Ooo, how about an electronic warfare Buccaneer from Desert Storm?! (His mind wanders toward the hobby store...)
:j

Whoops, I'd better finish the projects I have on the hobby table right now, or there'll be trouble from "She Who Must Be Obeyed". Again.
:0

[nev]

Another Bucc idea that struck me today was this.
When the Tornado began to enter service, many bucc pilots stated that the only thing to replace the bucc was "another Bucc, with updated avionics".  Whilst the Tornado is a fine overland attacker, it has been admitted, by RAF top brass, that the Tornado is clearly inferior to the Bucc in the anti-shipping role - not least becos it can only carry 2 Sea Eagles to the Buccs 4.  Now the maritime strike Buccs were only replaced with the GR1Bs after the end of the cold war freed up 2 spare squadrons of Tornados.  Rather than retire 5 year old airframes, they replaced the aging, but still effective Buccs with them.
So What If...
The Tornados were placed into storage, their RB199s taken out to re-engine the Buccs who as part of the refit also got an all-new glass cockpit with fancy avionics and radar as well as an all new,strengthened wing (the Bucc fleet was grounded then substantially reduced following fatal crashes in the late 70s caused by wing spar cracks).  Bucc continues serving into 21st Century with distinction.  Biggest problem I can see  is that by the time they were retired, the airframe hours of the last Buccs were totally shot.  Tho the new wings and engines would help, not sure whether that would be enough to give them another 10-15 years service

[Radish]

:p Thinking about the Bucc's wings being old, perhaps there were some "discovered", unused and ready to rock! That'd solve the problem. With all the low-level stuff the jags fly, I reckon they must have constant wing-upgrades. I also have a belief that The Jag will be around for many years to come, its parts gradually replaced by "new generation" materials, so that by about 2157, the RAF Jags will still be around as point-defence interceptors, mach 7 potential and all extra strong/flexible/heat resistant plastic. A sort of very high-tech Airfix kit.
:l A friend is making the Airfix "banana" 1/48th Bucc at the moment.  I wonder what it'd look like in Nicaraguan markings?
There's a lot of mileage in south american countries, and until the end of WW2, the europeans tended to hold sway with selling them equipment. Ecuador bought Jags, so why not Argentina with Buccs. That'd be an interesting scenario in 1982! Anyone fancy a Sea Eagle launched at Invincible or Hermes? What a disaster if the Argies had proper fixed wings flying from their carrier with us restricted to the Sea Harrier for strike! :k

[nev]

Well the std anti-ship fit for RN then RAF Buccs was a mix of anti-ship and anti-radar versions of the martel.  80's was too early for ALARM, HARM might have been an option, Standard ARM required a specialist avionics fit and was getting long in the tooth, shrike was just as old but a much simpler weapon to bolt on and use.

It depends on how far you want to go.

Frugal treasury - a couple of shrikes or martel with a 2nd hand jamming pod

Generous treasury - HARMs with the bomb bay filled with all kinds of electronic goodies and nice new modern jamming pods

[Martin H]

well seeing as the RAF took to lobbing Shrikes off Vulcans over Port Stanley in 82. Its likly thats what any SEAD Brick would have carried as far as ordanace goes. And as for Black boxes....what ever HM treasury could be talked into parting with the readies for....in other words........Sod all.

[Geoff_B]

Hi

Just received Scale Aircraft Modelling Dec edition which covers the RAF Buccaneers. In the text it mentions that the RAF in the 80' when the aircraft were being updated, wasnted to use 14 of the stored aircraft to be converted to defencs suppression Wild Weasel aircraft.(but like most things in UK defence got canned by the Treasury)
Anybody got ideas on sensor/weapons fit for this aircraft ?

Also in SAM, they are offering two resin upgrade sets for the Airfix 1/72 Buccanner - Nose and Tail, and Gulf weapons fit with pods bombs & pylons.

Cheers

Thorvic

[Matt Wiser]

Here's what the fit could have been:

Convert the bomb bay to an avionics bay: APR-47 emitter locator as used on the F-4G, plus ECM. Weapons load would be HARM and either Maverick and CBUs. A radar upgrade or  change might be advisable, but the F-4G kept the APG-120, so that might not be needed. A load might be two HARM, plus a TER w/CBUs. If Jaguar or Tornado are available, four HARMs and give the Jaguar or Tornado the CBUs to kill the SAM site equipment after the HARM ventilates the radar and crew.

[elmayerle]

For those who want to do a 1/48 Buccaneer in Marineflieger markings, Victory Productions here in the US now has a set of two Komoran missiles and their launch rails available.

[Bryan H.]

Alternate Buccaneers...  

Carrier-based: Indian, Dutch, Argentina, Brazil, Japan   , USN   , Italian, Canada   , Australia, Texas  

Land-based: Philippines, Thailand, New Zealand, Mexico, Peru, Chile, Korea, Oman, Turkey, Spain

Bryan

[Radish]

Had a Quarter Scale Group Meeting last night. One of the guys is scratchbuilding the moulds for a 1/48th Victor that'll be done as a vacform. If everything works out, he'll mould a few off too. Could be interesting? He's a clever chappie too.

While surfing for the odd thing RAF, I discovered that the Victor B.1 actually bombed in action.....Borneo, two were involved. New to me. Not sure which type of Victor's being done by my mate (and it may all come to nothing), but the wings are well on the way apparantly.

As for Buccs? Remember the "Red Flag " ones, which the USAF couldn't tag?

Luftwaffe would be nice though.
Quite like the "brick", always have done.
Whereas the Hunter............waste of metal.