Blackburn (BAE) Buccaneer

[DarrenP]

some other weapons i'd be interested in seeing on Buccaneer, Shrike, Standard, Alarm, HARM,Harpoon, Kormoran, Maverick, Walleye, GBU8 & 15, Mk 80 series dumb bombs. TIALD, Linescan recce pods

[Maverick]

I'm actually surprised Shrike, ALARM & TIALD weren't cleared for the Bucc as they were in service with the RAF.

As for the others, I suspect you'd need a different user to justify the integration of the weapon into the systems.

Regards,

Mav

[Martin H]

I'm actually surprised Shrike, ALARM & TIALD weren't cleared for the Bucc as they were in service with the RAF.

As for the others, I suspect you'd need a different user to justify the integration of the weapon into the systems.

Regards,

Mav

The Buccaneer was on its way out, they only went to the gulf because their "Airships" wanted the brick to go out in a blaze of glory. Even if it was only painting targets for the tonkas. So no need for it to be refitted for ALARM or TIALD. Plus TIALD was still officially under trials. The two pods hurriedly shipped out where pre production units.

[Maverick]

Granby was obviously the Brick's swansong, but Shrike was in service well before that...

Regards,

Mav

[pyro-manic]

IIRC the Shrike was not in regular service with the RAF. It was only used for the Black Buck missions on the Vulcans, due to worries about Martels icing up during the long flight.

[GTX]

Mind you, the idea of a Wild Weasel Bucc with 2 - 4 Shrikes sounds appealing!

[Maverick]

Shrike wasn't a regular RAF weapon with the ARM variant of MARTEL being the preferred weapon, but given the time frame, it still surprises me that the RAF didn't consider adopting the weapon, given it was quite smaller and more easily carried (177kg vs 550kg). 

One could see a Buccaneer toting multiple Shrikes (as Greg suggested) in addition to fuel in the bomb-bay and having a considerably longer endurance.  700ish kgs vs over 2000kg for 4 weapons would have to infer better performance I should think.  I suspect some of it had to do with the RAF not fielding SEAD specific squadrons at the time.

Regards,

Mav

[Weaver]

Indeed: RAF doctrine was to dodge the radar rather than fight them head-to-head. Anti-ship was a different matter, and another reason why Martel was so big (range and warhead).

Alternatively to filling the bomb bay with fuel, you could fill it with a serious ESM/ECM system, probably somewhere between an F-4G and an EA-6B. the Bucc had plenty of range even on internal fuel, so if you wanted to do SEAD in RAF Germany, it would be ideal.

[Mossie]

it still surprises me that the RAF didn't consider adopting the weapon, given it was quite smaller and more easily carried (177kg vs 550kg). 

They did IIRC, Martel was never particularly liked by the RAF.  I vaguely remember hearing that the RAF had a small very unoffical stock after Black Buck but I might be wrong.  They couldn't justify an official order since large stocks of Martel were still in existence.

[Maverick]

I suppose enhancing the Bucc's SEAD capability would be dependent on the back-seater being able to operate the equipment effectively.  The F-105G and F-4G both had that capability obviously, but would the Brick's systems allow the necessary RWR feeds, etc to be put into the rear cockpit?

One drawback of Shrike was, of course, it's inability to track a radar that switched off.  Could MARTEL do this?  I can't find anything specific about it's radar capability.

Regards,

Mav

[Hobbes]

Doubtful, that was ALARM's unique selling point.

[Maverick]

ALARM isn't the only modern ARM to track a radar turned off mid flight though.  Even the AGM-78 Standard ARM had that capability by 1969 and of course it was standard with the AGM-88 HARM.

Regards,

Mav

[rickshaw]

One drawback of Shrike was, of course, it's inability to track a radar that switched off.  Could MARTEL do this?  I can't find anything specific about it's radar capability.

No, Martel was no better than Shrike at that trick.   Alarm was the first which was able to do it, that I'm aware of.  All the ARMs before that were pretty "dumb" in that regard.

[Weaver]

I thought HARM could memorise the radar location too?

There's no doubt that a SEAD Bucc would need a completely new rear cockpit (and maybe some mods for the pilot too) and would probably become a specialised aircraft in the process.

[DarrenP]

I thought HARM could memorise the radar location too?

Ask the neighbours of Serbia!