Blackburn (BAE) Buccaneer

[elmayerle]

I'm not as well read on engines as airframes, but AFAIK, the Spey is/was a scaled down Medway.  The Tay had nowt to do with either and predated them by about ten years, being as it was an outgrowth of the centrifugal Nene but with reheat. 

The "Medway" I'm talking about here is a whiffy dry, incread by-pass ratio, derivative of the RB.199.  The Tay I'm referring was a refanned, with higher by-pass ratio, version of the Spey that was installed on some of the late-production Romanian BAC 111's.

The newer Tay is also used in the Fokker F70/F100 and Gulfstream GIV.  Though it was developed from the Spey the LP compressor was adapted from the RB211 IIRC.  I think the bypass ratio is around triple the Spey's.

As I said, if you stayed subsomic you could significantly increase the by-pass ratio of this "Medway" relative to a dry RB.199 and would likely get a boost in range over the Spey-powered Bucc S.2.  If further changes to the compressor sections of the Rb.199 were required to optomize for this role, it's fairly easy to do with a three-spool engine.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

What company would have built it under license here in the US?  Or would it have been a sweetheart deal as part of the payment for a Forrestal hull to be finished in the UK?  

Either way, it would have been a very effective aircraft for use as a medium attack/nuclear strike mission aircraft with USN/USMC markings.  

Thanks again Leigh for the beautiful WHIF.

[elmayerle]

US license builder?  My first thought would be Republic since they know rugged aircraft and they'd be close enough to Grumman to be able to get help if needed.  Other possibilities are McDonnell as part of a reciprocal relationship where Blackburn got rights to the Phantom II (in RL, they were the major UK support and mod company for the UK's F-3s according to Roy Boot's book).  One other possibility, since they had a working relationship with HSA, would be Northrop.

Opinions as to most likely choice?

[Shasper]

I still have a Bucc thats going into USN service in the early '80s, but I cant remember if Grumman or someone else got the liceanse right off (note to self, find & type hardcopy of backstory 1st draft nexttime TRB from deployment)


Shas B)

[rallymodeller]

Well, in the early/mid 60's both Republic and Grumman had roughly equivalent aircraft (the F-105 and Intruder respectively). Convair and Lockheed had their plates full with other projects (and really creative design staffs who would not take kindly to projects parachuted in from outside). Boeing had buttloads of transport and B-52 spares orders to fill. McDonnell-Douglas were busy with the Phantom and the upcoming F-X. North American were still developing possible sales avenues for the A-2, and with the Bucc a direct competitor, I don't know if they'd be interested. Martin was already headed for a possible merger with Lockheed. Northrop was busy selling F-5's under MAP contracts. That leaves Vought, whose main contracts were the F-8 and the new A-7.

Who among those would be likely? I say Martin or Northrop. Main reasons: Martin already had experience working with British manufacturers on the Canberra project, so that leaves them in an advantageous position as well as a new major contract staving off any merger attempts; and Northrop always had much more manufacturing capacity than they ever used although their experience filling Navy contracts was pretty limited.

So there's your field. Take your pick...

[elmayerle]

Well, in the early/mid 60's both Republic and Grumman had roughly equivalent aircraft (the F-105 and Intruder respectively). Convair and Lockheed had their plates full with other projects (and really creative design staffs who would not take kindly to projects parachuted in from outside). Boeing had buttloads of transport and B-52 spares orders to fill. McDonnell-Douglas were busy with the Phantom and the upcoming F-X. North American were still developing possible sales avenues for the A-2, and with the Bucc a direct competitor, I don't know if they'd be interested. Martin was already headed for a possible merger with Lockheed. Northrop was busy selling F-5's under MAP contracts. That leaves Vought, whose main contracts were the F-8 and the new A-7.

Who among those would be likely? I say Martin or Northrop. Main reasons: Martin already had experience working with British manufacturers on the Canberra project, so that leaves them in an advantageous position as well as a new major contract staving off any merger attempts; and Northrop always had much more manufacturing capacity than they ever used although their experience filling Navy contracts was pretty limited.

So there's your field. Take your pick...

Following that line of reasoning, I could see Martin as the most probable cndidate.  Given Northrop's preferences for simple, robust design, I can se the Bucc appealing to them, too, but they wouldn't have the naval ops experience and background.  Personally, I like it a the A2M-1 "Buccaneer".

[Archibald]

Think about something... I heard that the Martin XB-51 had a rotary launcher in its bomb bay... that resurected some years later on... the Buccaneer! Interesting conexion...  

[elmayerle]

Think about something... I heard that the Martin XB-51 had a rotary launcher in its bomb bay... that resurected some years later on... the Buccaneer! Interesting conexion...

It was ressurected before that, on the B-57 version of the Canberra.  All the Martin-built aircraft had it.  It's starting to look more and more like a Martin tie-up with HSA-Borough would be a high probablity.

[Hobbes]

So no FBW, then. The Tornado was done just before FBW became widespread, so is hauled about the sky by the pilot directly.

As far as I know, that's incorrect: the Tornado and F-16 were the first military production aircraft to be fitted with FBW.  

[RLBH]

So no FBW, then. The Tornado was done just before FBW became widespread, so is hauled about the sky by the pilot directly.

As far as I know, that's incorrect: the Tornado and F-16 were the first military production aircraft to be fitted with FBW.

Quite right...

No idea where I got that notion from.

[elmayerle]

So no FBW, then. The Tornado was done just before FBW became widespread, so is hauled about the sky by the pilot directly.

As far as I know, that's incorrect: the Tornado and F-16 were the first military production aircraft to be fitted with FBW.

Okay, then, we add FBW to the potential improvements in the Bucc S.3.  I'll have to start working up a three-view of this configuration.

[Shasper]

Could I suggest a more profiled radome, in kind to the Tornade F.3?


Shas B)

[Gekko_1]

Fellow Wiffers,

after looking through Ian Ruscoe's CMR 72nd scale Buccaneer article in the October 2007 issue of Model Airplane International, it got me thinking about my Airfix 48th scale kit for which I have nearly every aftermarket accessory available.

What really struck me about Ian's article was the desert camouflage scheme!  I really liked the scheme and I know it would weather-up nicely in real life......BUT......the one thing that drives me nuts about that scheme is the fact that the aft end was never painted the desert colours!

So at first I thought, oh bugger it, I'll build mine in that scheme too, but paint the aft end in desert colours as well! Then I thought, what a minute, why not do it as a "What if?" and include some bomb markings and some original nose art!

Then, I got to thinking about the bomb load......

Question: Could the Buccaneer physically carry two 2000lb bombs either side of its belly if a modified attachment point area was created?



Richard.

[jcf]

Redesigned pallet proposed by Blackburn for P.145 Bucc development.

Jon

[Thorvic]

Richard

It was just that Red Flag exercise where the bucc was 3/4's painted, just go whiff and say on the next years exercise they went to full desert wrap (actually they were grounded due to wing spar corrosion which forced them to cancel).

The other thing you could do is have them deployed to Oman to help protect the Gulf during the Iran/Iraq war. then they would probably be in the same scheme as omani jags.

Cheers

Geoff

(BTW Colins Frieghtdog sheet on the Vulcan has a Vulcan with its undersides in the desert scheme   ).