Anyone remember the Ekranoplan?

[maxmwill]

Remember the Ekranoplan, and how it got discarded after its patron, Nikita Kruschev fell out of power?

Well, looks like Beriev OKB is taking a look at the design, and adding a few touches of its own.

Be kinda nifty as a whif right now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np8vNRk-Svc

Kinda big, too

[Weaver]

They've been touting that model around for years: very much doubt it will ever get funded.

The problem with Ekranoplans is weather. They're only more efficient than conventional planes when they're skimming close to a flat surface, but the sea isn't always flat. As soon as they have to rise out of ground effect to avoid hitting waves, then they're just inefficient airliners.

[wuzak]

Boeing proposed a wing-in-ground effect transport aircraft a while back.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Pelican

[rickshaw]

They've been touting that model around for years: very much doubt it will ever get funded.

The problem with Ekranoplans is weather. They're only more efficient than conventional planes when they're skimming close to a flat surface, but the sea isn't always flat. As soon as they have to rise out of ground effect to avoid hitting waves, then they're just inefficient airliners.

Depends.  If it oceanic swell, they do OK, they just follow the contours of the surface.  If it becomes stormy and choppy, then they have to rise above the crests and their efficiency falls off.   The Ekranoplan was an ideal solution for several problems and it was perfect for use on Russian rivers (still a major part of Russia's transport infrastructure), being faster than surface ships and cheaper to operate than conventional aircraft or hovercraft.  They'll also useful in the Black Sea, Baltic and Caspian seas - where surface conditions are fairly predictable and you don't get massive storms which prevent them being used.

Perhaps their most ideal use and the one which all too often gets overlooked is not as a strike craft with missiles but as a landing craft.  They would allow amphibious operations mounted over long ranges and at high speeds, landing off the beach and taxiing up to it, to unload their cargoes.    People seem rather mesmerised by their missile carrying capabilities for some reason when in reality, that sort of mission would be better handled by conventional aircraft IMO.

[Cobra]

i think a Role for the Ekranoplan that's Been Overlooked would be as an Air Sea or Maritime Rescue Platform. Could You picture something like that Responding to an SOS? just my 2 cents worth. Dan

[wuzak]

Back in the 90's I knew a guy in Tasmania doing design work on a 6 seat ground effect aircraft as a high speed taxi. It had a high wing with a broad chord and two ducted fans on top. He built a 1/4 scale R/C model of it that he flew over the Derwent river but that must have been the end of it as it has not appeared anywhere since.

I think he ended up in Queensland.

[Weaver]

They've been touting that model around for years: very much doubt it will ever get funded.

The problem with Ekranoplans is weather. They're only more efficient than conventional planes when they're skimming close to a flat surface, but the sea isn't always flat. As soon as they have to rise out of ground effect to avoid hitting waves, then they're just inefficient airliners.

Depends.  If it oceanic swell, they do OK, they just follow the contours of the surface.  If it becomes stormy and choppy, then they have to rise above the crests and their efficiency falls off.   The Ekranoplan was an ideal solution for several problems and it was perfect for use on Russian rivers (still a major part of Russia's transport infrastructure), being faster than surface ships and cheaper to operate than conventional aircraft or hovercraft.  They'll also useful in the Black Sea, Baltic and Caspian seas - where surface conditions are fairly predictable and you don't get massive storms which prevent them being used.

Perhaps their most ideal use and the one which all too often gets overlooked is not as a strike craft with missiles but as a landing craft.  They would allow amphibious operations mounted over long ranges and at high speeds, landing off the beach and taxiing up to it, to unload their cargoes.    People seem rather mesmerised by their missile carrying capabilities for some reason when in reality, that sort of mission would be better handled by conventional aircraft IMO.

All true: my comment was mostly in response to the commerical case, which most ekranoplan designs seem to be pitched at these days.

[Weaver]

i think a Role for the Ekranoplan that's Been Overlooked would be as an Air Sea or Maritime Rescue Platform. Could You picture something like that Responding to an SOS? just my 2 cents worth. Dan

It would only be useful in a limited range of circumstances. It wouldn't be useful in the search phase because flying low, it's visual/radar horizon would be more restricted than a conventional aircraft, so it couldn't search the area as efficiently. When it comes to providing resources and/or evacuation at the incident site, it's combination of high payload, long range and relatively high speed might be useful, but only if it can actually land and take-off nearby in the prevaling weather conditions. A high proportion of maritime disasters happen in bad weather: waiting for the storm to clear so the ekranoplan can land is as sub-optimal as waiting for a lifeboat to arrive or the ship to get within range of a helicopter.

[maxmwill]

One country to consider that might try to field this, or something broadly similar, are the Chinese, as they have been trying of late to become a maritime power, or at least a maritime power of sorts.

Here is one possible idea that the Chinese could try to exploit:

http://www.vincelewis.net/ekranoplan.html

The Chinese, or someone of Chinese nationality with sufficient funds, could purchase the Ekranoplan hulkl that has been languishing in the weeds in Moscow(right now, they are willing to sell just about anything there, just to raise some, any, money).

I'm not saying that they'd have to duplicate it, but to use it as a pattern and reverse-engineer, or at least engineer something that could have the possibility of actually working.

[Weaver]

The problem with the Ekranoplan as a missile carrier is again that the alternatives are better. A conventional aircraft can carry the missiles faster and higher, thus achieving greater radar range for acquisition and greater range from the missile itself. A conventional missile boat is slower than the Ekranoplan, but it can stop dead and wait in a much greater range of weather conditions.

Re ekranoplans in inland waterways, I wonder how many times they have to pull up out of ground-effect to clear boats, ferries and bridges, what that does to their average efficiency, and what the safety authorities have to say about it.....

[kerick]

IIRC the Ekranoplan was envisioned for use in the Black Sea and Caspian Sea. I don't recall any real plans of using it on the open Atlantic or Pacific Oceans. Conditions on the Caspian Sea would be much better suited to its use. I wonder if anyone ever thought of using it on the Great Lakes of North America? Would it be possible to add skis for landing on ice?

[Weaver]

IIRC the Ekranoplan was envisioned for use in the Black Sea and Caspian Sea. I don't recall any real plans of using it on the open Atlantic or Pacific Oceans. Conditions on the Caspian Sea would be much better suited to its use. I wonder if anyone ever thought of using it on the Great Lakes of North America? Would it be possible to add skis for landing on ice?

Who would they use it against from the Caspian Sea? The only foreign power with a shoreline in the cold war was Iran, and the Soviet Union had plenty of land borders with it. The Black Sea makes more sense, given Turkey's NATO membership.

The Great lakes have storms of their own, though I don't know how they compare on a global scale (probably pretty mild and easier to predict). Skis should be possible since ekranoplans have demonstrated and ability to travel some distance inland on ground effect. Again, it's worth mentioning that sea ice is not neccessarily flat.

[PR19_Kit]

Here is one possible idea that the Chinese could try to exploit:

http://www.vincelewis.net/ekranoplan.html

That web site is a trifle 'gushing', to say the least.

A lot of it is repeated ad nausiam but the killer is the fact that the writer identifies the Beriev A-40 Albatross as an Ekranoplan. It's nothing of the sort, it's a conventional, although large, jet powered amphibian and has nothing to do with ground effect whatosever...........

[Rheged]

Is the Buccaneer's fabled low level performance in any way due to "Wing in ground effect"?

[PR19_Kit]

Is the Buccaneer's fabled low level performance in any way due to "Wing in ground effect"?

No, it was just built from battleship drawings, machined from the solid, used flap blowing and was flown by crews with massive b***s.