About the AVRO/Cierva C30 Rota

[maxmwill]

In another thread about military autogyros in the military, in one or more posts, it was discussed about a Rota being used as a medevac.

So, I got to thinkin'(at this point, my wife is saying to herself, "uh oh"), about later on during WW2.

What if the Rota was used as a battlefield medevac, or something similar?

Since then, I have been thinking about external litters, or a single litter, if the Genet Major didn't quite have the oomph for a pair.

Either way, I have been contemplating something similar to what the Bell 47 and the Hiller Raven were used, that is, externally mounted litters.

In those cases, the patient in a litter had a round plexiglass cover to shield him from the slip stream.

But, this being 1944 or so, there wouldn't be a rounded head shield, but something a tad more angular, say, a rounded front with a pair of sides, or even just a rounded head shield.

And, the litter(s) would be mounted close to the landing gear, since that's approximately where the center of gravity is, the extra weight of the litter(s) with patient(s) playing merry hob on the balance if mounted elsewhere, and would be more than a few inches from the fuselage.

This might've taken place in New Guinea, or similar, but I'm wondering if this  would be an operation possibly overseen by the Royal Navy(with the patient(s) being flown to a carrier just off shore), or the RAF.

I'm not quite sure, as well, as to the color scheme, although at this point, that might not be that big a concern, as I am still looking at the kit that will be the basis for this(1/72 scale Azur Cierva C30).

[Weaver]

That all makes sense. Of course, they had plexiglass in WWII, but they might not have considered a stretcher shield to be a good use of it. Other things they might have used: plywood (probably a square shield), aluminium (square or round), canvas-on-frame (probably square or faceted (like the nose of a Zeppelin)).

[maxmwill]

Well, I thought that a simple curved top with flat sides would be the most expeditious way to accomplish this. given the exigencies of a combat setting, or rough field improvisaton.

And if it were made of clear material, such as perspex, if the patient is conscious, he wouldn't be as distressed as one would be in a darkened space.

Also, being clear, a corpsman of medic could periodically check the patient for any further complications.

Basically, it'd be just a clear box that is open on one end, has a curved top, and is more than sufficiently wide, so as to not restrict or otherwise impede the patient, with a light supporting frame for the pieces to attach to.

With something like this, I'm trying to think like the mechanic that I am and come up with the simplest, yet workable solution, because all the actual medevac aircraft I've seen so far, the Bell 47, and the Sikorski R6, are basically lashed together, the framework holding the litters.

I did learn a long time ago that the Hiller OH23 Raven was used a lot more than the Bell, but for some strange reason, there are lots of pics of Bells, but none of the Hiller with patient litters on, even though they were used.

I know that the Hiller may not be as glamourous as the Bell(hence the tv show M.A.S.H.), but you'd figure that there was some sort of photographic record of them. I worked at an FBO, back in the early part of the 90s, which was teaching hopeful future helicopter pilots how to fly with a Hiller 12C, and even though that old gal was a regular pita when it came to regular maintenance, when everything was working right(especially with that monstrous mercury clutch), she flew like a champ. And I also learned to call that engine, the Franklinstein, because of where the starter/generator was mounted(under the engine, where oil tended to go when there was a leak, which was frequently, and the starter/generator had to be kept free of all kinds of liquids, including oil, and all it had for a shield was a felt gasket. And when it got wet, the whole engine, transmission and rotor had to be pulled off, which was an 8 hour job. And putting it all back on ate up another 8 hours.

But, in spite of all that, working there, I had a ball; the job having a lot of high points.

[rickshaw]

[maxmwill]

Thank you

Those are the first photos of the Hiller as a medevac helicopter I've seen.

What museum, is that?

[rickshaw]

I believe its the US Army Aviation Museum in the US.

[PR19_Kit]

I always like the Hiller more than the Bell 47, and I bought a Pavla kit of one quite a while ago.

Not built it of course, they're to look at, not build.   

[maxmwill]

I like the Hiller, too, but from working on them, not as a model, as I was never aware that there was a model of it.

Pasvla, you say.

Is it an old kit, Pavla long defunct?

[PR19_Kit]

Pavla aren't defunct, no, but their kits tend to be short runs. Hannants have 18 pages of their stuff currently! Bizarrely they come in HUGE boxes, no matter what the size of the finished model. I have their Bell 47, a Sioux actually with the turbo engine, the Hiller and an R-22. All of them are in boxes about 11" x 8"!  

I'll see if I can find my Hiller kit and take some pics for you.

[McGreig]

But, this being 1944 or so, there wouldn't be a rounded head shield, but something a tad more angular, say, a rounded front with a pair of sides, or even just a rounded head shield.

They're not from a helicopter, but these casualty evacuation pods carried on the wings of the Soviet Po-2 might provide a basis. And they're from the right period.

[maxmwill]

Yeah, that might do the trick, and I wouldn't mind having another Po2, albeit in a smaller scale.

Is this a new issue?

[McGreig]

Is this a new issue?

I think that it's a couple of years old now. Hannants have the ICM kit in stock for £7.99 www.hannants.co.uk/product/ICM72242.

The sprue shot is actually from an old Russian kit of the Po-2:



There is one of these ("Camonet Polikarpov po-2 Soviet plane") on eBay just now starting at £5.99 with one day + 11 hours left.

[maxmwill]

I saw that, and that is a pretty good price.

[jcf]

Adding casualty pods to the side of a C.30 type would probably have the same result as what
happened when they put one on floats: massively increased drag that seriously hampered
performance and handling.

The most powerful engine on a C.30 variation, was the 203-hp Salmson 9G used on some
SNCASE C.302.

The thing to bear in mind with an autogiro of the period  is that, even with jump-start capability,
it was not a helicopter and did not perform like a helicopter, the performance profile was closer
to a good conventional STOL aircraft, but it was inferior in some areas to the best of the conventional
types.

The C.30A was extensively tested at RAE and they found it needed a take-off run of 450' in still air,
and a run of 1,510' to reach an altitude of 50'. Note that while the C.30A had a rotor spin-up drive,
it was not a 'jump-start' machine, the rotor spin-up reduced the length of the take-off run but it did
not impart a VTOL capability.

[PR19_Kit]

I like the Hiller, too, but from working on them, not as a model, as I was never aware that there was a model of it.

Pasvla, you say.

Is it an old kit, Pavla long defunct?

I got that wrong, sorry. It's a Special Hobby kit, part injection moulded, part resin (a LOT of resin parts...) and part vacform canopies etc. It's the later version with the more bulbous canopy, and you can build it in either the US OH-23 or UH-12C versions or the FAA version, which had a different engine I think.

As usual with end opening boxes mine has ended up flat, but luckily all the parts are fine, even the canopies.