Argentine Fencers

[pyro-manic]

Typhoon has been looked at, and it was proposed several times by BAE while the vacillating over the F-35 was going on. Doable, but not cheap, and not optimal. Tornado I wouldn't like to speculate on, but as they haven't been built for 20 years I think it's very unlikely it would even be considered. Cheaper to buy a bunch of Superbugs or even boneyard Bugs. Or even Rafales...

[JasonW]

But they've never operated a carrier before, so they're having to learn/invent it from scratch. The RN (not the RAF!!) has had carriers for a century.

While this is true, they have not operated a true fixed wing carrier for over 35 years (1977? Ark Royal with Phantom's and Bucc's I believe was the last RN CTOL carrier?). It is a different ballgame to a certain extent when you're talking about Harriers and CTOL fixed wing aircraft from pilot training perspective. Not only that, but even the Invincible's operated more as helicopter carriers the last few years of their service. UK Harriers on carriers were phased out what, in 2010 or so due to budget cuts? Those types of skills and all the training for those carrier missions will go cold quick if the training regimen is not maintained. People retire and leave the service, skills deteriorate due to lack of training, military budgets get slashed. The RN would not necessarily be starting from scratch, but I think it would be a tall order to expect the RN to take a conventional large angle deck carrier with a full compliment of CTOL aircraft and start operating it in short order. They'd probably be able to ramp up quicker than the PRC, but probably not significantly quicker unless they can at the very least keep a core cadre of pilots and crew trained. The RN still has five years before the first QE class carrier enters service, and even than, is it clear what will be flying from them? I've heard wildly different plans ranging from STOL F-35's to CTOL F-35's to simply helicopters at first.

I am not trying to knock the RN's capabilities, but budget cuts and various other things over the years kill that sort of capability very rapidly. And once that deterioration starts, the only way to get it back is to train, train and train some more. And that takes time, especially for pilot training. And it takes money, lots of money.

My dig at the RAF operating from the carriers was simply poking fun at the last few years of Harrier service when the RN was hosting RAF Harriers (Joint Force Harrier was under RAF command). I imagine that must have made several RN carrier admirals from WWII etc. roll over in their graves what with the RN's air power falling under RAF command.......

[McColm]

Now that we are pals with the French, they've got a carrier and aircraft to go with it. Paint over the roundels and change the name of the boat/ship.

[JasonW]

Now that we are pals with the French, they've got a carrier and aircraft to go with it. Paint over the roundels and change the name of the boat/ship.

That is one way to go about it I suppose.....

Not sure how Lord Nelson would have felt about a development like this though.

[zenrat]

...Even 2-3 years is pushing it to be honest, the Chinese have been at it now for a couple of years and are nowhere near as proficient with carrier flying as they will need to be.

A couple of years?  More like 30.  China started in 1985 when they bought the Decommissioned Melbourne to practise with.

[Alvis 3.14159]

I've 3 things to say about this

1) It's in the Daily Express

2) It's in the Daily Express

3) It's in the Daily Express

Enough said ?



Well it does fit their preferred three lead topics. 
In no particular order.................
1. The EU/Immigration.
2. Princess Diana. 
3. the Falklands.

Throw in the weather or threat of the worst weather conditions ever known in the UK to be specific and you could get a job on the Express's editorial panel  quote]

It only needs a dubious connection to Nazi's or immigration [preferably all involved in the death of Diana] and you have an Express Editors dream front page story!

Argentinian Nazis illegally in the UK killed Diana, now plotting to steal Falklands!
I should have something done for ARC Silly week day 7, without that headline, of course.

Alvis 3.14159

[jcf]

Argentinian Nazis illegally in the UK killed Diana, now plotting to steal Falklands!
I should have something done for ARC Silly week day 7, without that headline, of course.

Alvis 3.14159

You forgot ... and ship them to the Moon via their secret Antarctic base using fleets of saucers.

[Martin H]

Argentinian Nazis illegally in the UK killed Diana, now plotting to steal Falklands!
I should have something done for ARC Silly week day 7, without that headline, of course.

Alvis 3.14159

You forgot ... and ship them to the Moon via their secret Antarctic base using fleets of saucers.

No, No No, No!

that would have been the Daily Sport..................................

[JasonW]

...Even 2-3 years is pushing it to be honest, the Chinese have been at it now for a couple of years and are nowhere near as proficient with carrier flying as they will need to be.

A couple of years?  More like 30.  China started in 1985 when they bought the Decommissioned Melbourne to practise with.

I didn't think they got a whole lot of serious training with the Melbourne though? Everything I've ever read seemed to indicate that other than some flight training on land with an improvised ski-jump similar to the Liaoning (ex-Riga/Varyag) they really hadn't begun any serious flight training until the Liaoning entered service. My understanding was that the acquisition of the Melbourne was simply to enable the PRC to gain insight into carrier design and construction.

[NARSES2]

Argentinian Nazis illegally in the UK killed Diana, now plotting to steal Falklands!
I should have something done for ARC Silly week day 7, without that headline, of course.

Alvis 3.14159

You forgot ... and ship them to the Moon via their secret Antarctic base using fleets of saucers.

No, No No, No!

that would have been the Daily Sport..................................

And the pilot would have been a long legged blond scantily dressed alien type female 

[Geoff]

Another "Iron Skys" fan then

[zenrat]

...Even 2-3 years is pushing it to be honest, the Chinese have been at it now for a couple of years and are nowhere near as proficient with carrier flying as they will need to be.

A couple of years?  More like 30.  China started in 1985 when they bought the Decommissioned Melbourne to practise with.

I didn't think they got a whole lot of serious training with the Melbourne though? Everything I've ever read seemed to indicate that other than some flight training on land with an improvised ski-jump similar to the Liaoning (ex-Riga/Varyag) they really hadn't begun any serious flight training until the Liaoning entered service. My understanding was that the acquisition of the Melbourne was simply to enable the PRC to gain insight into carrier design and construction.

From what i've read and what has been posted elsewhere here I think the main thing they would have got insight into was rust...

[McColm]

In the January/February issue of JETS.
"Although Argentina's Defense Minister Agustin Rossi announced on October 21 that his government would purchase 24 new Saab JAS 39 Gripen E fighters, it is thought that the British government will easily veto the plan. As the Gripen contains a substantial amount of British built components, it is thought that the Argentine desire to buy the fighter will be impossible. Meanwhile, Brazil has confirmed an order for 36 Gripen E jets valued at $150 million each".

[GeorgeC]

Now that we are pals with the French, they've got a carrier and aircraft to go with it. Paint over the roundels and change the name of the boat/ship.

That is one way to go about it I suppose.....

Not sure how Lord Nelson would have felt about a development like this though.

The French build many hundreds of fine ships for the RN in the 18th and 19th Centuries.  Granted, cutlasses and prize money were involved in the 'aquisition' of pretty much all of them...

[Alvis 3.14159]

Well, my Argentinain Su-24 is 90% complete..too late for "Silly Week" on ARC, so I'll post it here first!


Alvis Pi