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Vickers Victory and Vickers Windsor

Started by KJ_Lesnick, January 03, 2015, 06:55:21 PM

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kitnut617

#15
January 12, 2015, 05:00:58 AM
There's another somewhere where that Type 'C' has five 4-wheel trucks for u/c, one each under the four inner most nacelles, and one where the front u/c is.  It's this one I'll try to have a go at.
If I'm not building models, I'm out riding my dirtbike

rickshaw

#16
January 12, 2015, 05:44:18 AM
Quote from: PR19_Kit on January 12, 2015, 04:58:48 AM
Needs longer wings.............  ;)

Would need wingtip wheels then, Kit and a very, very, very, wide runway!  ;D
How to reduce carbon emissions - Tip #1 - Walk to the Bar for drinks.

KJ_Lesnick

#17
January 12, 2015, 03:15:09 PM
Gondor

QuoteOnly managed to find this drawing of the Type C with a quick search of Google
Where would one find a picture of the B model
That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.

rickshaw

#18
January 12, 2015, 05:39:30 PM
Quote from: KJ_Lesnick on January 12, 2015, 03:15:09 PM
Gondor

QuoteOnly managed to find this drawing of the Type C with a quick search of Google
Where would one find a picture of the B model


How about here?
How to reduce carbon emissions - Tip #1 - Walk to the Bar for drinks.

Captain Canada

#19
January 12, 2015, 05:51:46 PM
That would be so cool to see in plastic. Keep at it Robert !

:cheers:
CANADA KICKS arse !!!!

Long Live the Commonwealth !!!
Vive les Canadiens !
Where's my beer ?

The Wooksta!

#20
January 12, 2015, 08:08:19 PM
Quote from: rickshaw on January 12, 2015, 05:39:30 PM
Quote from: KJ_Lesnick on January 12, 2015, 03:15:09 PM
Gondor

QuoteOnly managed to find this drawing of the Type C with a quick search of Google
Where would one find a picture of the B model


How about here?

:thumbsup:
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Captain Canada

#21
January 13, 2015, 04:55:26 AM
That's a neat link ! Lots of discussion on those links, a lot seem dead as well. Hardly any pics either. But I'll keep looking ! Thanks for that one, never seen it done like that before...pretty cool !

:thumbsup: :cheers:
CANADA KICKS arse !!!!

Long Live the Commonwealth !!!
Vive les Canadiens !
Where's my beer ?

kitnut617

#22
January 13, 2015, 07:05:34 AM
Quote from: Captain Canada on January 13, 2015, 04:55:26 AM
That's a neat link ! Lots of discussion on those links, a lot seem dead as well. Hardly any pics either. But I'll keep looking ! Thanks for that one, never seen it done like that before...pretty cool !

:thumbsup: :cheers:

You have to be a member on the Secret Project forum Todd, to see any pics. 
If I'm not building models, I'm out riding my dirtbike

kitnut617

#23
January 13, 2015, 07:06:28 AM
Quote from: The Wooksta! on January 12, 2015, 08:08:19 PM
Quote from: rickshaw on January 12, 2015, 05:39:30 PM
Quote from: KJ_Lesnick on January 12, 2015, 03:15:09 PM
Gondor

QuoteOnly managed to find this drawing of the Type C with a quick search of Google
Where would one find a picture of the B model


How about here?

:thumbsup:

I think Kendra/Robyn wore out her welcome on that forum
If I'm not building models, I'm out riding my dirtbike

Captain Canada

#24
January 13, 2015, 08:15:47 AM
OK cheers I'll see if I can sign up !

:cheers:
CANADA KICKS arse !!!!

Long Live the Commonwealth !!!
Vive les Canadiens !
Where's my beer ?

KJ_Lesnick

#25
January 15, 2015, 05:33:36 AM
Rickshaw

I did do searches on Google before... I didn't enter that particular query though


kitnut617

Nope, I'm still a member.
That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.

KJ_Lesnick

#26
January 15, 2015, 03:51:27 PM
Okay... I pulled up some drawings and this is a basic line drawing



Sure, it's a little off center and stuff but it's a pretty good illustration and close enough to scale for the time being.

That being said, I'm curious about a few things and I illustrated them in this modified image here



I'm not sure exactly which of the two protrusions up front are the cockpit (and what the other is for), if the lower rear-protrusion is a turret or something else, and if the bomb bay position is correct

I do find the lower fuselage shape to be rather odd (in addition to the double bubble, the flat belly), as it seems like it'd be easier to design a pressure hull as close to a tear-drop as possible: A shape that is also well suited to geodetic design.


BTW: As I understand it, the earlier Vicker's bombers (Wellington & Warwick) were made from a metal geodetic-frame with a doped-linen skin (the Victory might have been based on this too): The Windsor used a geodetic internal structure with a metallic wire-skin (think metal fabric) covered with PVC.  Was there any thought as to just using a metal skin with a geodetic frame?
That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.

Captain Canada

#27
January 15, 2015, 04:10:14 PM
Tail wheel and observation blister ?
CANADA KICKS arse !!!!

Long Live the Commonwealth !!!
Vive les Canadiens !
Where's my beer ?

kitnut617

#28
January 15, 2015, 05:31:54 PM Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 05:48:03 PM by kitnut617
The design was an extension of this, the Wellington Mk.V.



It had a pressure chamber just for the crew which is the round shape with the streamlined nose, you can see the bubble canopy the pilot looked through.  None of the rest of the bomber was pressurized.

You can see the pressure chamber in that 3-View only it's much bigger, and it has two round bubble canopies, forward one for the pilot, rear one could be for the gunner (turret at rear was a remote one) or for the navigator.  The flat to the bottom of the fuselage was for ground clearance, the bomb bay was to be big enough to have a Grand Slam (22,000 lb bomb) completely enclosed. And it was a tail-dragger.  It was to fly at extreme altitude, 40-50,000 feet

This was the Avro design along the same lines, a pressure chamber for the crew all up front. None of the rest of the fuselage was pressurized.



The air intake at the front of the bomb bay is not for a jet engine, there was a fifth Merlin engine there who's sole purpose was to drive a large supercharger for all the other engines and for pressurizing the crew chamber,
If I'm not building models, I'm out riding my dirtbike

KJ_Lesnick

#29
January 15, 2015, 08:36:12 PM
Kitnut617

QuoteThe design was an extension of this, the Wellington Mk.V.
When was this conceptualized and built?

QuoteIt had a pressure chamber just for the crew which is the round shape with the streamlined nose, you can see the bubble canopy the pilot looked through
Okay so the circular area is the pressure area, the rest is just to blend it in, the aft fuselage is slab-shaped: The Windsor seemed to better blend the upper and lower sections together aerodynamically interestingly.

While we're on the subject of structural and aerodynamic issues

  • Is there any advantage to a slap-shape relative to an oval or circular cross-section from the standpoint of aerodynamics or internal volume
  • Wouldn't a circular or oval shape be more conducive to a geodetic construction (as well as use a more liberal pressurization a'la the B-29)
Quoteit has two round bubble canopies, forward one for the pilot, rear one could be for the gunner (turret at rear was a remote one) or for the navigator.
Looking at the Avro Lancaster, the idea of the navigator sitting there would make the most sense.  Are you sure, the turret is remotely controlled?  I ask because most remotely controlled turrets are smaller than manned ones because of the lack of a need to shoe-horn a person in there.

QuoteThe flat to the bottom of the fuselage was for ground clearance, the bomb bay was to be big enough to have a Grand Slam (22,000 lb bomb) completely enclosed. And it was a tail-dragger.  It was also to fly at extreme altitude, 40-50,000 feet
1. Bomb-Carriage Requirement: I sort of get that.  Regardless, any of the following fix the problem

  • Moving wings lower/fuselage higher: This was done on the Windsor
  • Using a type of bomb-bay door similar to the B-24?
.
2. Regarding the tail-dragging configuration: Why didn't the RAF just use a retractible tail-wheel?  We used that arrangement without major difficulty.

3. Extreme Altitude: What kind of supercharging arrangement was to be used for the Victory-Bomber's engines and crew-compartment?
That being said, I'd like to remind everybody in a manner reminiscent of the SNL bit on Julian Assange, that no matter how I die: It was murder (even if there was a suicide note or a video of me peacefully dying in my sleep); should I be framed for a criminal offense or disappear, you know to blame.
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