Harriers for the RN and RM

TallEng · January 08, 2015, 10:54:16 AM

I expect some of you will remember this picture from a week or so ago,

Well i've been working on the Harriers,
first up the early Harrier for the Royal Navy
I've added a radar nose and "Tallerised" (TM) the fin to take account of the extra side area of the radar nose.

With weapon load.

And the Royal Marine Harrier?
Well that too has gained a radar nose, which I've rounded off (courtesy of a Hunter)
at the moment its still in sand and spinach camo. I'm just wondering if I should leave
it as it is? and just repaint the nose.
or hand it back to the RN and give it some kind of Air superiority greys scheme

thoughts comments etc...

Regards
Keith

sandiego89 · January 08, 2015, 11:09:01 AM

Like the taller tail on the RN version.

As for the RM version, that weapons load out looks very much air superiority and I doubt our WHIF RM's would be doing much of that mission. You already have a RN version so I vote keep RM with the sand and spinach with a new load out

So I'd say keep the paint (something different is always nice) and change the ordinance to a mud moving mission: gun pods, rockets, mavericks, bombs, CBU's smart bombs, napalm, etc depending on your time frame, etc. (not all at once).

-or

Change the paint to RN or RAF for an air superiority mission and load out.

NARSES2 · January 09, 2015, 03:52:51 AM

Have to agree that if the RM's had their own air support it would be support orientated.

Please keep the camo thogh, it looks great

Captain Canada · January 12, 2015, 10:12:45 AM

Harriers ? Did someone say Harriers ?

Nice work on both. Love the new tail and pointy nose. Going to look super sweet all painted up.

As for the RM version, I like the idea of keeping her sand and spinach, and just painting the nose. Could either be a development bird or one fresh from conversion that hasn't been to the paint shop yet. I like the weapons myself, if you're going to have a big honkin' radar like that, you might as well be ready to use it ! Besides, if they were sharing deck space with RN birds, wouldn't they be sharing the air superiority role ?

DogfighterZen · January 18, 2015, 06:15:55 PM

To me, the Navy one looks better than the RM because of the pointy nose, but the idea and the work done are excellent on both!

McColm · January 19, 2015, 05:11:37 AM

There's an article in Scale Aviation Modeller International Vol 20 Iss 11 November 2014. Page 1044.
Lots of photos of the F/A.2s, portfolio of the FRS.1-FA.2, scale plans in 1/72 and 1/48. I like the Whatif markings of the Australian Air Force taken from the A-4G scheme applied to the FRS.51

Captain Canada · January 19, 2015, 07:27:10 AM

A quick google search reveals a few RAN Harriers.

A couple from here http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php?topic=34379.0

On ARC http://www.arcair.com/Gal11/10601-10700/gal10620-Harrier-Lee/00.shtm

And this one http://www.inkworm.co.uk/

There are probably others

rickshaw · January 19, 2015, 05:50:52 PM

Quote from: Captain Canada on January 19, 2015, 07:27:10 AM
On ARC http://www.arcair.com/Gal11/10601-10700/gal10620-Harrier-Lee/00.shtm

Quote
"What are they gonna do? Send me to Afghanistan?"

Silly boy, one should never tempt fate. There are worse postings than Afghanistan. There are always worse postings. The Gods that be in Russell Offices are both jealous and wrathful!

I suppose he could be made Air Defence Officer, Davis Station, Antarctica with special duties concerning monitoring the Penguin population with daily, weekly and monthly returns required...

TallEng · January 22, 2015, 02:59:01 PM

Royal Navy Harrier update time

too many projects on the go

so I jump from one to another....

Thoughts etc?.....

Regards
Keith

sandiego89 · January 22, 2015, 05:05:10 PM

Quote from: TallEng on January 22, 2015, 02:59:01 PM
Royal Navy Harrier update time

Thoughts etc?.....

Like the color, markings and the radar nose! Your chosen weapons may dictate placement of stores and if/where you can carry fuel tanks. Move the fuel tanks to the inner wing stations if you have a normal weapons fit. First generation harriers nearly always carried fuel tanks on the inner wing stations, weapons on the outer stations..unless you have some unique item that needs to go on the inner station, or an asymmetric load like a sea eagle one side and a tank on the other side. WE177 was an inner store. Something big like a sea eagle may call for an inner wing store, but not sure you would have the weight allowance for two big missile and two tanks. May be one or the other. Two sea eagles and two tanks might be too heavy for a realistic fit. Two sparrows would be nice, but likely best on the outer stations.

Gun pods or strakes on the belly? Needs one or the other. If you have weight concerns, go with strakes.

Looking good!

TallEng · January 23, 2015, 02:21:51 AM

Thanks for the thoughts Sandiego89

My initial idea is 2x Sea Eagle/Martel in the inboard pylons. Why?
Because that's where the Test Harrier is shown carrying them in this book
Which I'm using as the reference/idea generator

'First Generation Harrier In Worldwide Service Volume 1: 1960-2000'
And the drop tanks go on the outboard pylons, to give the range.
Strakes under the fuselage due to weight concerns

Rough back of the fag packet sums (Wikipedia weights

)
Sea Eagle = 580kgs x2 = 1160kgs, 100gal Drop tank 380kgs (fueled up) x2 = 760 Kgs
Which together = 1920 Kgs rounded up = 2000Kgs
Combat radius: 230 mi (200 nmi, 370 km) lo-lo-lo with 4,400 lb (2,000 kg) payload.
The only thing I haven't got is a guesstiweight for a radar? Blue Vixen weighs 145kgs
But entered service in 1979, I need an earlier service entry date, say early 70'ies so
I guess 200kgs might be good for an early version of Blue Vixen (blue Fox?)
It kind of works with the weights?

Regards
Keith

Captain Canada · January 23, 2015, 06:55:38 AM

She looks really good in that colour Keith ! Weapons fit sounds about right. And we all know that feeling of too much on the go....

sandiego89 · January 23, 2015, 07:23:53 AM

Quote from: TallEng on January 23, 2015, 02:21:51 AM

My initial idea is 2x Sea Eagle/Martel in the inboard pylons. Why?
Because that's where the Test Harrier is shown carrying them in this book

Roger, all the photos I am aware of show Sea Eagles on the inner pylons of a Sea Harrier, and no tanks on the outers. I do note one picture of a single Sea Eagle on one inner station, and a single "tank" on the opposite outer pylon on a test harrier, undoubtedly as a counter weight. If not weight, perhaps a clearance issue? Perhaps not enough clearance between the Sea Eagle fins on an inner store station and a tank on an outer station? Sea Eagle has a pretty big span.

Not sure if Sea Eagle had to be on a (sea)Harrier inner pylon for circuitry reasons, or weight/center of balance purposes, or both.

May be the camera angle tricking me, but perhaps you have a 190 gallon tank on the outer station?

Please take all this as general discussion- WHIF on!

Gondor · January 23, 2015, 08:38:22 AM

Quote from: sandiego89 on January 23, 2015, 07:23:53 AM

Roger, all the photos I am aware of show Sea Eagles on the inner pylons of a Sea Harrier, and no tanks on the outers. I do note one picture of a single Sea Eagle on one inner station, and a single "tank" on the opposite outer pylon on a test harrier, undoubtedly as a counter weight. If not weight, perhaps a clearance issue? Perhaps not enough clearance between the Sea Eagle fins on an inner store station and a tank on an outer station? Sea Eagle has a pretty big span.

Not sure if Sea Eagle had to be on a (sea)Harrier inner pylon for circuitry reasons, or weight/center of balance purposes, or both.

May be the camera angle tricking me, but perhaps you have a 190 gallon tank on the outer station?

Please take all this as general discussion- WHIF on!

I don't think that the outer pylons are plumbed for tanks.

Gondor

sandiego89 · January 23, 2015, 10:33:10 AM

Quote from: Gondor on January 23, 2015, 08:38:22 AM
Quote from: sandiego89 on January 23, 2015, 07:23:53 AM

I don't think that the outer pylons are plumbed for tanks.

Gondor

Think you are correct. For a first generation (sea)harrier, only inner plylons plumbed, outers and centerline dry.

I have a reference showing a Sea Harrier (essentially the same wing as a GR1/3) being able to carry a 100 gallon tank on the outers pylons as well, but for logistics only (dry carriage)