Xain JH-10 (Chinese copy of the Panavia Tornado)

[zenrat]

Stealth Paint is all it takes.
Available from Zenrat Industries in any shade of grey plus tartan and sky blue pink.
It's only disadvantage is that it has to be applied with an unobtanium brush in an absolute vacuum in order to avoid deactivating the stealth molecules.

[Weaver]

Well now, suppose we look at a couple of things:

The JH-7 looks like something that Britain could have built in the 1960s: it's basically a Phantom-sized Jaguar with Spey engines.

The Mitsubishi T-2/F-1 is a Jaguar in all but name, having been developed by Japan with SEPECAT help when negotiations to build the Jaguar directly didn't work out.

Britain has licenced China to build Spey engines, Warrior turrets and was apparently going to licence Harrier production to them at one point. Italy has licenced Aspide missiles and Grifo radar to them, and France has licenced Crotale missiles and Dauphin and Super Frelon helos. Even the USA was about to help them upgrade the F-8II before Tianamen Square, and Israel (you can bet with US approval) helped them develop the J-10 with Lavi technology. It's not outlandish to posit European governments licencing last generation hardware to China.

So, imagine a T-2/F-1/Lavi situation happening with China and the Tornado. Negotiations to build an outright copy in the late 1980s don't pan out due to Tianamen Square, but technology transfer and design advice continue into the 1990s. The end result might bear the same relationship to a Tornado that an F-1 does to a Jaguar: it'd be the same basic shape, but much of the detail would be different.

Some things you could do to Chinify a Tornado:

Replace the British-style RWR "chisel" aerials with conical fairings at the base of the fin (rear) and tip of the fin (forward).

Change the shape of the fin to be smaller and more angular and add ventral strakes.

Add mass balances to the tailplanes.

Change the gun installation to GSh-23s under the intakes, JH-7 style.

You could do a lot of this by using bits from the old, awful Trumpeter JH-7 kit that should now be cheap because the new, much better JH-7A one is now out.

[Gondor]

To add to Weavers comments,

Change the canopy to individual opening sections for each crew member just like the Jaguar and Phantom.

Change the undercarriage to twin wheels on each main unit rather than the single wheel.

Stretch the fuselage a bit and make the whole fuselage a bit larger all around.

Or use the old ESCI kit of the Tornado as its not the best depiction of a Tornado.

Gondor

[Jesse220]

Ok now I'm thinking that the clone Tornado might be a single engined stealth fighter/ And the Cockpit might be like the J-20's

[Weaver]

Ok now I'm thinking that the clone Tornado might be a single engined stealth fighter/ And the Cockpit might be like the J-20's

In what way would any of that still be a Tornado clone though? As others have said, to make a Tornado stealthy, you'd have to change so much that there wouldn't be any Tornado left.

[Geoff]

IIRC the Chinese did try to obtain  tonkas in the 80's or 90's. So weavers ideas are good. They also wanted Mirage 2000s I read somewhere

[Jesse220]

Ok now I'm thinking that the clone Tornado might be a single engined stealth fighter/ And the Cockpit might be like the J-20's

In what way would any of that still be a Tornado clone though? As others have said, to make a Tornado stealthy, you'd have to change so much that there wouldn't be any Tornado left.

Your probably right I guess it needs 2 engines then.

[Gondor]

Another problem the Chinese would have is the manufacturing of the swing wing as so far none of the aircraft they have built use this type of wing so any Tornado like aircraft they build would probably have a more basic form of wing sweep such as used by the MiG-23/27 and the Su-17/20/22 family where little or no hard points are carried on the wings.

Gondor

[Jesse220]

Another problem the Chinese would have is the manufacturing of the swing wing as so far none of the aircraft they have built use this type of wing so any Tornado like aircraft they build would probably have a more basic form of wing sweep such as used by the MiG-23/27 and the Su-17/20/22 family where little or no hard points are carried on the wings.

Gondor

I guess you do have a good point

[rickshaw]

Building a slightly more accurate FH-7A from the Trumpeter kit (which appears to have all the same problems as the FH-7).   

[Dizzyfugu]

You do have a point. But if they duplicate the Tornado the Europeans would be angry at the Chinese

They already did - but were not able to reproduce the swing wing mechanism...



That inability is also the reason why the Q-6 (a copy of the MiG-23 with a chin intake, built one some time ago) never came off of the drawing board. I guess that today aerodynamics and avionics are advanced enough to make the complex swing wing solution obsolete, though? A VG solution would also be detrimental to a stealth design, with so many extra openings, edges, etc.?

[Gondor]

You do have a point. But if they duplicate the Tornado the Europeans would be angry at the Chinese

They already did - but were not able to reproduce the swing wing mechanism...



That inability is also the reason why the Q-6 (a copy of the MiG-23 with a chin intake, built one some time ago) never came off of the drawing board. I guess that today aerodynamics and avionics are advanced enough to make the complex swing wing solution obsolete, though? A VG solution would also be detrimental to a stealth design, with so many extra openings, edges, etc.?

It has a sort of brutish charm about it. A Jaguar on steroids to do the job of a Tornado while not looking exactly like either while having design elements from both.

I total agree about modern wing design meaning that swing wings are no longer necessary which is a pity as some swing wing aircraft look really cool

Gondor

[Jesse220]

You do have a point. But if they duplicate the Tornado the Europeans would be angry at the Chinese

They already did - but were not able to reproduce the swing wing mechanism...



That inability is also the reason why the Q-6 (a copy of the MiG-23 with a chin intake, built one some time ago) never came off of the drawing board. I guess that today aerodynamics and avionics are advanced enough to make the complex swing wing solution obsolete, though? A VG solution would also be detrimental to a stealth design, with so many extra openings, edges, etc.?

Really? I didn't notice that before.

[Captain Canada]

The twin finned Tornado looks funny...guess I'm just too used to seeing the 'real' thing. I'd love to see the Leopard some day. What a beast !

[kerick]

That JH-7 is a nice looking bird.