USAF and buzz numbers

[PR19_Kit]

I'm trying to make sense of the USAF's post WWII serial number system and I've got some of the way.

For instance I know that each aircraft type has its own two letter code for the prefix of the buzz number eg. the Sabre was FU (No sniggering at the back there...) and the Thunderjet was FS, the F standing for 'Fighter' and was previously a P for 'Pursuit'.

I also know that the last three of the buzz number were the same three at the end of the serial itself, the bit carried on the fin. But what I can't find out is which serial numbers were allotted to each aircraft.

In the Brit system there's Bruce Robertson's excellent book which lists every single aircraft by production block and serial no. but I can't find the equivalent for the USAF. Could any of you across the pond enlighten me please?

I'm particularly interested in the P-82 Twin Mustang serials, buzz prefix PQ or FQ.

[Gondor]

Try this picture of a P-82B and another one here. Hope they help/answer your question Kit?

Gondor

[kitnut617]

Try this Kit:

http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/usafserials.html

[PR19_Kit]

Jeepers, that link is pretty comprehensive Robert, but simple to understand it isn't! Joe Baugher needs to take some lessons from Mr. Robertson....

I think the stuff I need is in there but it's going to take some digging.

[kitnut617]

I know what you mean, it does take a bit to follow it.

I think the basics are easy to follow though, if we had a list of what aircraft got what letter, the example shows two NAA aircraft (Sabre-dog and Super Sabre) being a 'U' and a 'W', it would be more understandable. So I wonder what all the other aircraft of the time got

[PR19_Kit]

Unfortunately the tables for 1944 seem to be missing any Twin Mustangs apart from the three XP-82s, and there should be some sign of the 18 P-82Bs. There's no sign of P-82s in the 1945 serial list, which is correct, and they only re-appear en mass in the 1946 lists for the Allison engined versions.

The most famous Twin Mustang, 'Betty Jo' 46-5168, doesn't appear in ANY of the lists, which is patently ridiculous, and it has a 1946 serial when it was ordered in 1944. 

I think I'll make my Tri-Stang a conversion from the P-82 that followed 'Betty Jo' off the line, 46-5169. That's assuming 'Betty Jo' wasn't the last P-82B of course, but then this is WhiffWorld............

[kerick]

I love this phrase, it solves so many problems! "but then this is WhiffWorld............"

[kitnut617]

Unfortunately the tables for 1944 seem to be missing any Twin Mustangs apart from the three XP-82s, and there should be some sign of the 18 P-82Bs. There's no sign of P-82s in the 1945 serial list, which is correct, and they only re-appear en mass in the 1946 lists for the Allison engined versions.

The most famous Twin Mustang, 'Betty Jo' 46-5168, doesn't appear in ANY of the lists, which is patently ridiculous, and it has a 1946 serial when it was ordered in 1944.  

I found all the P-82B's in the third from last 1944 list Kit (starts with 44-40049 etc) , scroll to the bottom almost and the last group were cancelled:

44-65160/65168      North American P-82B Twin Mustang
            c/n 123-43746/43754
            65162 (c/n 123-43748)on display on pylon at Lackland AFB up until 1966.
               Donated to Confederate Air Force May 1966 and restored
               to flying status in 1969.  Suffered crash landing at
               Harlingen, TX Oct 10, 1987.  Currently undergoing
               restoration.  Noted as N12102 at Gillespie Field, CA Jan 2002.  Latest
               issue of *Aircraft Illustrated* reports aicraft back with CAF at Midland,
               TX but only restored to static display condition.  CAF wants to exchange
               the plane for something else, but the NMUSAF claim that they own the
               aircraft and it must be returned to them.   Reported in Apr 2008
               issue of Aircraft Illustrated to be returning to USAF Museum.  A legal ruling
               was issued that the museum is the owner, not the CAF.  In 2011 was back in USAF Museum
               painted black
            65168 (c/n 123-43754) to NACA as NACA 132; noted 1957 at USAFM, WPAFB.  Still there in 2005.
               The plane (named "Betty Joe") set a record by flying 5000 miles from Hawaii nonstop
               on Feb 27, 1947, covering 5051 miles in 14 hrs 33 min at an average
               speed of 334 mph.  Named Betty Jo after the wife of one of the pilots,
               but painted Betty Joe but later corrected.
44-65169      North American P-82C Twin Mustang
            c/n 123-43755
            Conversion of 10th P-82B to P-82C night fighter
44-65170      North American P-82D Twin Mustang
            c/n 123-43756
            Conversion of 11th P-82B to P-82D night fighter
44-65171/65179      North American P-82B Twin Mustang
            c/n 123-43757/43765
44-65180/65659

[PR19_Kit]

Hm, so much for IE's 'Search Facility' then. 

Thanks for that Robert, looks like I'll use 65659, the very last P-82B. 

[kitnut617]

Well I didn't use the 'search facility', just went looking in each one starting at the bottom 1944 list. Soon as I saw P-51H's and P-80's being listed I knew the P-82's couldn't be far away.

[Logan Hartke]

Hey, Kit, I always try to make sure I get a historical serial number when I do my profiles, and I use much the same method, so let me know if you questions about serials in the future.

As for your serial, you don't have to use 44-65659. That's the last in series of canceled serial numbers. You can use anything from 44-65180 to 44-65659. There's hundreds of numbers in there.

Also, the Allison-engined Twin Mustangs were in the '46 series. They're 46-255 to 46-504. Use Ctrl+F to find the types you're looking for. The other method that I use is to find the closest "canceled" block of serial numbers to the aircraft that my specific type is comparable to. You'll find my serials for the P-61F Widows, for example come from canceled blocks, P-47N serial ranges, P-82 serial ranges, etc.

Cheers,

Logan

[PR19_Kit]

That's what I do too Logan, thus my search for the last P-82B off the line. And I DID use 'Ctrl-F', that's the 'Search Facility' that I mentioned, but it didn't work in this case.

Going through the list that Robert produced I didn't check the numbers of aircraft that were listed, and as NA started off with a production order of 500 P-82Bs there were a LOT of cancellations. In fact they only built 18 of them, and the last one would seem to have been 65179 as that's the 18th B model produced. Luckily it wasn't converted into a C or a D so that's going to be my target.

[Captain Canada]

Seems to fit the realm of reasonable. Which is my new phrase. It is a little bizarre that the info on them isn't out there.