RAF Fighters & Ranges

[KJ_Lesnick]

In the UK we have the inter library loan service whereby you can ask your local library to borrow the book you want from another library.

Do you have a similar thing Stateside ?

Uh, not that I know of...

[royabulgaf]

Yes, we have inter library loans stateside.  However, they are for the most part within a region in a particular state.  These are usually some regional library association, not nationwide.  Also, the public library associations are separate from university library associations.  Also, I would be surprised that any public library would get the kind of books we are interested in.  It's always worth a shot.  Be kind and get the book's ISBN first.

[NARSES2]

  Be kind and get the book's ISBN first.

Yup both of those can expedite any request when dealing with bureaucracies inherent in most library systems

[Rheged]

Yes, we have inter library loans stateside.  However, they are for the most part within a region in a particular state.  These are usually some regional library association, not nationwide.  Also, the public library associations are separate from university library associations.  Also, I would be surprised that any public library would get the kind of books we are interested in.  It's always worth a shot.  Be kind and get the book's ISBN first.

If you can quote title, author and the 13 digit ISBN (that's the number that starts 978-) most librarians  (or booksellers if you have lots of folding stuff) will fall on you with cries of glee. The Amazon site will usually have this data, even if you don't buy from them.

 I'm sure that a question phrased "What do people here suggest I should read about......" will get sensible answers..........well, it's worked for me up to now!

The other suggestion is to talk to your local university library. In the UK at least, most uni. libraries will allow local residents reasonable reading facilities. Most academic librarians I've met are keen to encourage  ANYONE doing research of almost  any kind . Of course, if you do find anything interesting, odd, Whiffable, or just plain unexpected, report it here and gather our  plaudits.

[KJ_Lesnick]

pyro-manic

Because it's a constant (and I mean constant) stream of often bizarre questions, which can either be answered yourself with a bit of effort, or are so strange that they can't be meaningfully answered, or are trifling technicalities that cannot be answered by anyone short of a designer who's been dead for decades.

That's not true at all.  Sometimes I don't even know how to describe what I'm asking for -- when that's clarified I have something useful, which makes it better for refining a question.  This can be used for an online search or can be used for asking questions on a forum.

As for finding information that could not possibly be answered from a person who's been dead for decades: That's generally nonsense -- I've found very few cases where that's been the case; admittedly the Nathan C. Price stuff was pretty damned close -- but I found some patent research items.  Still, there is little on him.

You were banned from SecretProjects for a reason - this very reason.

Actually, they removed the ban and simply changed the status to such that I'd require an approval before posting.


Rheged

So I could go to the library and ask them if they have inter-library loans, if they say yes I can ask if they could find a book with this ISBN: 978-0946219483; and if they could I could just get this book with a library card?

[perttime]

So I could go to the library and ask them if they have inter-library loans, if they say yes I can ask if they could find a book with this ISBN: 978-0946219483; and if they could I could just get this book with a library card?

Quite likely. Ask them. It is possible that there are some costs in doing that, and you'd have to pay something for the service.

Where I live, I can just go online and search for material in regional libraries. Like: https://piki.verkkokirjasto.fi/en/web/arena/haku (sorry,not completely translated)
If I know some details about a book, I can probably find out if they have it, which library has it, and is it on shelves or loaned.

edit:
No, They don't have Morgan & Shacklady's Spitfire book. I grabbed mine in a bookstore sale years ago.

[Rheged]

Rheged

So I could go to the library and ask them if they have inter-library loans, if they say yes I can ask if they could find a book with this ISBN: 978-0946219483; and if they could I could just get this book with a library card?

YES!  That's exactly how it works on this side of the Atlantic.  If the inter library loan service in the UK  has it on their file then I pay my money: 75p (about $1) if it's coming from elsewhere in local area and £4 (about $7) it comes from elsewhere in the national system. (At least, these were the prices the last time I used it) It helps to give title as well as ISBN but as our honourable colleague NARSES has so sagaciously declared......Libraries are a bureaucratic construct and they thrive on code numbers.

In the UK there is also a way to consult the official copyright libraries, who are entitled to receive a free copy of EVERY book printed in the UK. I do know researchers who have done this.  Sorry, I don't know how  but given the breadth and depth of knowledge members here have, I'm sure that someone will know. Perhaps Library of Congress might be able to tell you the system in USA?

[tahsin]

You were banned from SecretProjects for a reason - this very reason.

Actually, they removed the ban and simply changed the status to such that I'd require an approval before posting.

All hail Lockmart applying a brake on its trolls, so that forum moderators wouldn't have to cope... Now that the said trolls were very suspicious of anyone who might have said anything against a certain object with sales now supposedly assured. Much blame, one must say on individuals who are very "active", but not all the blame.

This post does not require attack, defence or comment of any sort.

[KJ_Lesnick]

So, I'm doing some looking around and I've found some basic data which regards the fuel capacity of the early Spitfire F-Series

Please correct me if I'm wrong

Mk. I through Mk. V (Internal)

• Upper & Lower: 85 Imperial Gallons
  
• Total: 85 Imperial Gallons
  

(External)

• Some F.II LR's had 2 x 30 Imperial Gallon tanks
  

Mk.VIII
(Interior)

• Main Upper: 47 Imperial Gallons
  
• Main Lower: 49 Imperial Gallons
  
• Wing-Tanks: 2 x 13 Imperial Gallons
  
• Total: 122 Imperial Gallons
  

(Exterior)

• Drop Tank: 1 x 90 Imperial Gallon
  
• Slipper Tank: 1 x 30, 1 x 90, or 1 x 170 Imperial Gallon
  

.
Mk.IX Early
(Interior)

• Main Upper: 48 Imperial
  
• Main Lower: 37 Imperial Gallons
  
• Wing Tanks: 2 x 13 Imperial Gallons
  
• Total: 111 Imperial Gallons
  

(Exterior)

• Slipper Tanks: 1 x 30, 1 x 45, or 1 x 90 Imperial gallons
  
• Drop Tanks: 1 x 50 Cylindrical Drop Tank (Kluged from the Hurricane)
  

.
Mk.IXc Concept (Modified by USAAF)
(Internal)

• Upper & Lower Tanks: 85 Imperial Gallons
  
• Wing Tanks: 16.5 Imperial Gallons
  
• Aft Fuselage: 43 Imperial Gallons
  
• Total: 144.5
  

(External)

• Drop-Tanks: 2 x 62 Imperial Gallons
  

.
Mk.IXc Later
(Internal)

• Upper & Lower: 85 Imperial Gallons
  
• Rear Upper: 41 Imperial Gallons
  
• Rear Lower: 34 Imperial Gallons
  
• Wing-Tanks: 2 x 13 Imperial Gallons
  
• Total: 186 Imperial Gallons
  

(External)

• Slipper Tanks: 1 x 30, 1 x 45, or 1 x 90 Imperial Gallons
  
• Drop Tank(s): ?
  

.
As far as I know, regarding the wings

• Type-A: 8 x 7.7mm with 300 rpg
  
• Type-B: 2 x 20mm with 60 rpg; 4 x 7.7mm with 350 rpg
  
• Type-C: 4 x 20mm with 120 rpg; or 2 x 20mm with 120 rpg & 4 x 7.7mm with 350 rpg; or 8 x 7.7mm with 300 or 350 rpg
  
• Type-D: 66 Imp Gallons
  
• Type-E: 4 x 20mm with 120 rpg; or 2 x 20mm with 120 rpg & 2 x 12.7mm with 250 rpg
  
• New Wing: Used on the Mk.21 -- 4 x 20mm with 150 rpg
  

I get everything?

[wuzak]

Slipper tanks were drop tanks. When you describe a single drop tank of 90UKG that was the slipper tank.

It is unlikely that they would use both slipper tanks and "cylindrical tanks kluged from the Hurricane".

Early Mk IXs didn't have wing fuel tanks.

The later ones had 18 UKG wing bag tanks plus either a 33 or 41 UKG rear fuselage tank.

The 170 UKG slipper tanks was a ferry tank.

Don't think there was ever a "LR" Mk II.

There were several Mk Is converted for PR work. The PR.IF moved the cameras from in the wing to the rear fuselage, and had fixed blisters carrying 30UKG of fuel.

[KJ_Lesnick]

Wuzak

Slipper tanks were drop tanks.

I know that, but I simply wanted to list them as separate because they looked different...

It is unlikely that they would use both slipper tanks and "cylindrical tanks kluged from the Hurricane".

I never said that they would haul both, merely what they could haul.

Early Mk IXs didn't have wing fuel tanks.

Thanks for the clarification

The later ones had 18 UKG wing bag tanks plus either a 33 or 41 UKG rear fuselage tank

They did not carry 33 and 41 (upper/lower)?

The 170 UKG slipper tanks was a ferry tank.

A ferry tank is one that's not to be used in combat right?

Don't think there was ever a "LR" Mk II.

Yes there was, that I checked

There were several Mk Is converted for PR work. The PR.IF moved the cameras from in the wing to the rear fuselage, and had fixed blisters carrying 30UKG of fuel.

I am starting to do some looking into on the PR-variants...

[wuzak]

Wuzak

Slipper tanks were drop tanks.

I know that, but I simply wanted to list them as separate because they looked different...

It is unlikely that they would use both slipper tanks and "cylindrical tanks kluged from the Hurricane".

I never said that they would haul both, merely what they could haul.

Don't know that they ever did use a cylindrical drop tank.

The only drop tank options for the Spitfire used in service was the slipper tank.

The later ones had 18 UKG wing bag tanks plus either a 33 or 41 UKG rear fuselage tank

They did not carry 33 and 41 (upper/lower)?

Rear fuselage, not the upper and lower tanks in front of the pilot.

Don't think there was ever a "LR" Mk II.

Yes there was, that I checked

Where did you check?

[wuzak]

The 170 UKG slipper tanks was a ferry tank.

A ferry tank is one that's not to be used in combat right?

Right.

[kitnut617]

Photos in the Morgan/Shacklady book show Spitfires with cylindrical tanks fitted

[wuzak]

Photos in the Morgan/Shacklady book show Spitfires with cylindrical tanks fitted

Operational Spitfires, or ones for testing?