XP-82 Twin Mustang Restoration

[Logan Hartke]

So, today my father and I drove up to Douglas, GA to see one of the restoration projects that I'm most excited about, the XP-82 Twin Mustang Restoration Project. Tom Reilly is the owner and is shooting to have it airborne in another year and a half. That seems a bit ambitious to me, but it're actually quite far along, nonetheless.

http://xp-82twinmustangproject.blogspot.com/

Weezie Barendse is the site administrator and also handles the online social presence for the project. She was gracious enough to give us a tour of restoration hanger and is incredibly knowledgeable and passionate about aviation, the B-25 Mitchell and P-82 Twin Mustang, especially. For example, the back of her truck is covered in aviation decals, bumper stickers, and Twin Mustang silhouettes. She also has a custom "R-2600" license plate. She really knows her stuff.

Anyway, the first thing we saw was the Liberty Foundation's Memphis Belle.

http://www.libertyfoundation.org/b17history.html

A B-17G converted to B-17F configuration for the "Memphis Belle" film, she played the title aircraft in the movie and now gives rides in the US. She is based at Douglas, GA in the offseason and was undergoing engine and fuel tank maintenance while we were there. The people working on it gave us free reign of the Flying Fortress while we were there and it's very much still a flier. The interior is tidy, but well-worn from daily flying and use.





I didn't take many B-17 pictures because I only had limited battery and that wasn't what I'd come for. Now for the main attraction, the XP-82.



This is a shot towards the rear of the aircraft as I stood on the center wing section. I got to look at the cockpit, but it's not completely outfitted, yet. They're still doing the labor-intensive re-wiring on the entire aircraft.



It's hard to get a good feel for it in these photographs, but it really is a big aircraft. It seems to dwarf a regular Mustang.











These pictures come from an adjacent storage container with Tom Reilly's P-51D Mustang that's awaiting restoration after the XP-82 is done.





Cheers,

Logan

[kerick]

It will be great to see such a plane back in the air. Thanks for the pics.

[PR19_Kit]

Logan, I'm green with envy, inside and out like a stick of Blackpool rock!

That's amazing, not only that someone's even doing it, but the fact that the prototype still exists! It does look in superb condition and I found it surprising that the overall finish as it is at the moment seems to be all the same shade. So many pics of Mustangs seem to show loads of different NMF shades scattered all over the airframe. I'll keep that in mind when finishing the Tri-Stang.

[Later] Just had a brief look at the project's web site. 
Those guys are incredible, even just from looking at the pics the workmanship is really top notch stuff, I'm 1000% impressed. 

[jcf]

Logan, I'm green with envy, inside and out like a stick of Blackpool rock!

That's amazing, not only that someone's even doing it, but the fact that the prototype still exists! It does look in superb condition and I found it surprising that the overall finish as it is at the moment seems to be all the same shade. So many pics of Mustangs seem to show loads of different NMF shades scattered all over the airframe. I'll keep that in mind when finishing the Tri-Stang.

[Later] Just had a brief look at the project's web site. 
Those guys are incredible, even just from looking at the pics the workmanship is really top notch stuff, I'm 1000% impressed. 

Kit, look through the history of posts on the blog, you'll see that most of the visible skinning is new, as is a whole lot
of the 'restored' aircraft, so it isn't really representative of how the aircraft looked when originally produced. Photos
of the actual XP-82 when new show a variety of tones to the skin panels, and, of course, painted wings in typical
Mustang fashion.

Truthfully the project looks a lot like the Boeing Model 40 'restoration' out of Spokane, evidently the only original parts are
the data plate and the pilot's foothold in the fuselage side. 

[Logan Hartke]

That's not entirely fair, jcf. I was talking to them about that very matter and they said that most of the castings and internal structure (think of them like the "bones" making up the structure of the aircraft) are original, either from the XP-82 itself or other Twin Mustangs. The skin is all new, the engines are not original to the XP-82, but they are vintage engines. Also, all of the other parts that you'd suspect (wiring, rubber, plexiglass) had to be remade.



You can read about all of the P-82 parts that they scrounged for the project on the history page of the blog.

http://xp-82twinmustangproject.blogspot.com/p/history.html

The short version is that most of the internal structure is original.

Cheers,

Logan

[PR19_Kit]

I was impressed the way they made some of the internal ribs and castings by using the old ones as patterns, making new formers from them and then making the new parts with the formers.

A bit like a full size version of some of our resin casting brethren here. 

[Logan Hartke]

Absolutely. They're just doing it in 1:1 scale. They have the original NAA plans for the XP-82 and the P-82B, too. Those have been very helpful.

Cheers,

Logan

[Captain Canada]

Very cool. Thanks for sharing !Love the pic of the shelf with the seat and the spinner. That spinner is huge !

There is a 'buy it now' 10 pack of Modelcraft P-82s on ebay right now for like 23 bucks. Good deal !

[PR19_Kit]

There is a 'buy it now' 10 pack of Modelcraft P-82s on ebay right now for like 23 bucks. Good deal !

Apart from the 23 wrong handed props...... 

[kitnut617]

There is a 'buy it now' 10 pack of Modelcraft P-82s on ebay right now for like 23 bucks. Good deal !

Apart from the 23 wrong handed props...... 

Not only the wrong handed props Kit, but turning the wrong way even for a P-82A too (P-82A was the only P-82 scheduled to have props turning the same way)

[Captain Canada]

I'd still buy them. And I wouldn't have even notice the props turning the wrong way ! But now I'll have to 

[PR19_Kit]

There is a 'buy it now' 10 pack of Modelcraft P-82s on ebay right now for like 23 bucks. Good deal !

Apart from the 23 wrong handed props...... 

Not only the wrong handed props Kit, but turning the wrong way even for a P-82A too (P-82A was the only P-82 scheduled to have props turning the same way)

Did they actually build any like that Robert? I know about the business of the prototype being unwilling to take off until BOTH props had their rotation reversed to change the lift factor over the centre section.

[kitnut617]

There is a 'buy it now' 10 pack of Modelcraft P-82s on ebay right now for like 23 bucks. Good deal !

Apart from the 23 wrong handed props...... 

Not only the wrong handed props Kit, but turning the wrong way even for a P-82A too (P-82A was the only P-82 scheduled to have props turning the same way)

Did they actually build any like that Robert? I know about the business of the prototype being unwilling to take off until BOTH props had their rotation reversed to change the lift factor over the centre section.

No Kit, the Allison engine that was being developed for the P-82 had a lot of teething problems which didn't get sorted out until the P-82E version.  By that time the engine had been 'handed' like the Merlins.

I'm also wondering about the prop direction factor ( I won't call it a myth), on the BTS forum, Jon (jcf) had posted something that got me thinking, apparently he has/had access to one of the designers and Jon said that the wing chord for the P-82 had been increased (I can't remember the measurement but the kit wings match it) which he got from this designer.  But I've read a number of references that say the XP-82 was fitted with wings from the P-51H for the outer wings (modified without u/c bays).  Now I know that the although the P-51H wing is bigger than the P-51D wing, but it's not as big as the F-82 kit wings (which as a matter of fact, match the 3-View drawing of it in Aircraft of the Fighting Powers), so my thoughts are that perhaps the wing chord increase was done after the first XP-82 got flying and that's when the lift problem occurred.  I'm wondering if this was more the cure to getting the XP-82 off the ground better and the prop direction was the icing on the cake sort of thing.

[PR19_Kit]

The Aeroplane Magazine work on the P-82 mentions the prop rotation issue on the XP-82 but says nothing at all about wing chord.

It says that the aircraft only flew 'reluctantly' with the original rotation but makes no mention of increasing the wing chord in order to help it fly properly, and the time between the low performance first flight and the one that went to plan was only some three weeks. That seems reasonable for swapping engines from one fuselage to another but a tad short for rebuilding three wings totally.

I checked the wing of the Monogram P-82 kit against the RS P-51H which showed the semi-spans to be pretty much the same but the P-82's chord to exceed that of the P-51H but about the chord of the ailerons/flaps.

[kitnut617]

I checked the wing of the Monogram P-82 kit against the RS P-51H which showed the semi-spans to be pretty much the same but the P-82's chord to exceed that of the P-51H but about the chord of the ailerons/flaps.

That sounds about right, I have three of the High Planes P-51H kits (plus five F-82 kits of various manufacture) and I get the same when I compare. As a side note, The wing of the FJ-1 matches the P-51H to a tee so if anyone wants to do a tri-gear Mustang, this is the wing to use.

When I compared the Monogram F-82 against the High Planes P-51H, I found that the fuselages match each other very well (ignoring the fact they have different engine cowling profiles), and that the extra length the F-82 fuselage got, was just an extension of the top and bottom profile lines of the P-51H. I also noted that where the dorsal fillet starts (and the angle of it) on the F-82, is in exactly the same position as the P-51H only it was continued back towards the fin to match the extra fuselage the F-82 got.  The fin and rudders on the F-82 are bigger than the P-51H though (although they are very similar in size to the FJ-1's)

Something else interesting about the P-51H and F-82, when the P-51H fuselage was extended 13", the wing was moved back that 13" too, and then the F-82 wing got moved back another 13", measurements taken from the back of the spinner to the wing leading edge.  So when you include the increase in wing chord for both aircraft, it makes them look quite different to the P-51D