AMX International - 'Ideas Vault'

[Captain Canada]

Lots of great ideas. She defo would look good in Kiwis !

[Scooterman]

Geez, just about anybody from Mexico to Argentina and most of the African continent.

German
Czech
Hungary

[scooter]

How 'bout in lozenge for Tsingtao?


Kurdish version coming soon... 

[Ian the Kiwi Herder]

All great ideas, even the Roger Penske AMX scheme - doubt if I could find sponsor stickers small enough tho'

Kit, Martin, Simon, Chris (et al) - Thanks for chiming-in folks, yes I am still 'in the hobby', both here in Kiwi and on t'interweb, just not been building any 'What If' projects. If you're interested in my 'real world' stuff, drop me a PM and I'll send you some links.

In the meantime... Let's give this idea-train some parameters (What !!  ). Remember the AMX and the A-10 are the only western designed single-purpose (attack) aircraft designed in recent years, and you could argue that the A-10 is a dual-role attack and anti-tank platform. The AMX has only a very basic radar & avionics suite, a well proven (Spey) engine and was designed from the outset for ease of operation and maintenance. So who would its' logical customer base be ??

A cheaper and less well equipped A-7/Jaguar class replacement, or a more expensive but better equipped A-4/MB326/L39 class replacement, opinion would suggest that it falls/fell between the two which may explain why it never sold. Hmmm, not really helping my own cause here am I  .

OK here's my initial thoughts:
Thailand - initially to supplement the F-5 & L39 fleets, then to take-over in the light attack role, whilst the (real world) Gripens & F-16s take on the A2A chores. South Korea for similar reasons could not be ruled-out but that would mean their own T-50 programme would have been still-born or never forwarded.

Indonesia - Perfect step between the dual-role Hawk T1 & 209s/F-5s and their F-16/Su27/Su30s. If they had opted for both the two and single-seat versions then the entire Hawk/F-5 fleet could have been replaced (apparently they are looking to do that now anyways).

Switzerland and/or Austria - Definitely !!, working alongside the F-5's and eventually replacing them in all but the interceptor mission... but not too colourful, eh ??

Portugal and Greece - a shoe-in for a cheaper A-7 replacement. Pity Germany never took-up the type as a replacement for their 'Ginas', as the Italians did.

Libya - always had very close links to Italy. Not so close links but if you wandered around the North and West African coast you could 'see' AMXs wearing Egyptian, Tunisian, Moroccan, Algerian or even Nigerian roundels.

What about the South & Central American 'factor' ?? - a lot of folks picked-up on that. Pity in didn't happen in the Real World, but Ecuador, Colombia, Chile, Peru, Argentina and Mexico really do 'stand-out'. Smaller Air forces like Bolivia, Uruguay, Costa Rica etc would probably suffer from 'finance issues', but then it is the 'What If' universe we're talking 'bout.

So what about my two ??... RNZAF is almost a given, I'm already working-up a back-story in my head, the other.... Mexico would be fantastic in a wraparound 'Vietnam' type scheme (like their F-5E's), same scheme could go on Portuguese or RoKAF models.... Hmmmm 

Back to you lot.

Ian.

ps
Kit - great movie reference, friend, not sure everyone here would get that - I did 

[PR19_Kit]

ps
Kit - great movie reference, friend, not sure everyone here would get that - I did  [/i]

I almost hate to tell you this Ian, as it's bound to be held against me for ever, but a school friend and I 'sang' that number (the word 'sang' being used here in its WIDEST possible sense...) in a school gala concert in 1960 or so. 

I did the Bing Crosby bit and I'm still almost word perfect on it to this day, I checked it on YouTube! 

[Mossie]

Afghan Air Force, there have been moves to offer them:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/alenia-offers-surplus-amx-fighters-to-afghanistan-for-close-air-332618/

[scooter]

Kurdistan Peshmerga-

[ChernayaAkula]

<...>
In the meantime... Let's give this idea-train some parameters (What !!  ). <...> The AMX has only a very basic radar & avionics suite, a well proven (Spey) engine and was designed from the outset for ease of operation and maintenance. So who would its' logical customer base be ??

<...> a more expensive but better equipped A-4/MB326/L39 class replacement, <...>

Going from that, how about Kenya? Maybe some hand-me-downs from Italy, purchased with the problems in Somalia in mind? Not as sleek as their F-5s, but probably a bit more useful in the ground attack role.

[Jesse220]

Oh how about a US air force AMX International?

[Weaver]

Id be even happier if it was in the one true scale.

Good to see you showing the face around here again Ian

Seconded on both counts....


Why didn't the AMX sell?

1. Compared to dual-purpose trainer/attack types like the Hawk or Alpha Jet, the AMX is more capable in the attack role, but the AMX-T is over-specified for the trainer role. Peacetime training costs usually trump hope-we-never-need-it attack capability in the eyes of most finance ministries.

2. When the AMX was new and shiny in the early 1980s, most big air forces wanted F-16 style air-to-air/air-to-ground "swing fighters" and most small air forces could get 2nd hand stuff cheaper.

3. By the time small air forces' 2nd hand stuff was wearing out, the AMX's Spey was starting to look old and expensive to maintain. A few deals proposed to small South-American users didn't go through because they couldn't afford to pay to re-engine it and didn't want it with the Spey.

Basically it was a victim of timing: if it had come along in the late 1960s/early 1970s, it would have done much better.

[Weaver]

Given that there's nothing fundamental in the AMX that couldn't have been done in the 1960s, you could put one in RAF markings IF you radically changed the background to the aircraft. Let's say the Jaguar went the way of the AFVG and never happened. The delay means the RAF revises it's training ideas and goes for the subsonic Hawk, but thinks it's too small to adapt to the CAS/BAI role. The need for many more of the latter aircraft due to the switch of NATO strategy to Flexible Response is still there though, and time is short, so they launch a low-risk project with a fixed wing and a proven Spey engine to address it.

You could model this by changing the AMX's gun setup to twin ADEN's under the intakes, Jaguar-style, and putting a Jag LRMTS nose on it.

A Mk.II version might have an RB.199, TFR in the original radome, and the LRMTS in a Tornado-style under-nose fairing.

[PR19_Kit]

What would the RAF have named it? Answers on a postcard to.......

[Ian the Kiwi Herder]

Almost exactly a year later and what will you find at the Nuremburg show - Hobbyboss are doing 1:48 AMX's  . Anybody want to quote the cliche about waiting for ever for a bus and then...


Ian.

[DarrenP2]

I did a Lebonese one ages ago.

Canadian replacing the F5
German Replacing the Alpha Jet in ground attack role
would agree New Zealand as an A4 replacement
South Africa to replace the Impala II

[Amphion]

Since the AMX is in part derived from the SAAB B3LA (or A38) project, how about a Swedish one.

The B3LA:



And its larger sibling B3LM:



//Tommy