Landkreuzers P1000 Ratte & P1500 Monster

[seadude]

We need a dedicated thread to talk about these beasties.  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1000_Ratte
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1500_Monster

Both the Ratte and the Monster were proposed, but never built by Germany in World War II. But now, 70+ years later, the Ratte has been built..........in a 1/144 scale model by Takom!
http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10308781

Armor modelers can now rejoice at finally having a scale model of this far out fantastic what if subject!  

But what about the P1500 Monster? Will there ever be a kit of that? And if not, then how to scratchbuild one? What would it look like? I've already bought a Takom kit so I can build the Ratte. And I've bought one of the following too so I can eventually build a 1/144 scale P1500 Monster:
http://www.amazon.com/Scale-WWII-German-Dora-Railway/dp/B000P92YWI

The P1500 was designed to use the same calibre of gun as that of the Dora railway gun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav
http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints-depot/trains/trains-0-9/80cmke-dora-railway-siege-gun.png

But the biggest hurdle is that of deciding what would the gun be housed on/transported on? A few sketches/concepts I've found are the following. If a real P1500 were to have been built (or even a model), then what type of transport chassis would it have?
Sample A - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/P1500macedon.jpg
                http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww304/StugE100/Monster1.jpg

Sample B - http://s2.blomedia.pl/gadzetomania.pl/images/2012/10/c10-312959.jpg

Sample C - http://kampfgruppe144.blogspot.com/2012/06/1144-landkreuzer-p1500-monster-matuo.html
                https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/17/fa/b4/17fab4eea5d952ff19f43153150bad44.jpg

[scooter]

We need a dedicated thread to talk about these beasties. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1000_Ratte
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landkreuzer_P._1500_Monster

Both the Ratte and the Monster were proposed, but never built by Germany in World War II. But now, 70+ years later, the Ratte has been built..........in a 1/144 scale model by Takom!
http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10308781

Armor modelers can now rejoice at finally having a scale model of this far out fantastic what if subject! 

But what about the P1500 Monster? Will there ever be a kit of that? And if not, then how to scratchbuild one? What would it look like? I've already bought a Takom kit so I can build the Ratte. And I've bought one of the following too so I can eventually build a 1/144 scale P1500 Monster:
http://www.amazon.com/Scale-WWII-German-Dora-Railway/dp/B000P92YWI

The P1500 was designed to use the same calibre of gun as that of the Dora railway gun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav
http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints-depot/trains/trains-0-9/80cmke-dora-railway-siege-gun.png

But the biggest hurdle is that of deciding what would the gun be housed on/transported on? A few sketches/concepts I've found are the following. If a real P1500 were to have been built (or even a model), then what type of transport chassis would it have?
Sample A - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/P1500macedon.jpg
                 http://i730.photobucket.com/albums/ww304/StugE100/Monster1.jpg

Sample B - http://s2.blomedia.pl/gadzetomania.pl/images/2012/10/c10-312959.jpg

Sample C - http://kampfgruppe144.blogspot.com/2012/06/1144-landkreuzer-p1500-monster-matuo.html
                 https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/17/fa/b4/17fab4eea5d952ff19f43153150bad44.jpg

I have to go with either B or C.  Choice A looks just too unstable.

[seadude]

I have to go with either B or C.  Choice A looks just too unstable.

I have to agree. Though I might be leaning toward C.  Sample A is nice, but having the P1500 supported by just two pairs of treads on each end with nothing supporting the bulk of the weight in the middle is asking for trouble.
Sample B is great, but if I or anybody else were to whif it, then what other model kit tank chassis or other platforms could be used to hold/transport the main gun? And in what scale? Stick with 1/144 hull or use a slightly bigger 1/72 or thereabouts hull to hold the 1/144 gun?
Sample C is nice too. It shows the main gun being supported/transported on a pair of P1000 Rattes. It's this option I might build if I weren't able to do Sample B for any reason.
Though if the Germans did build the P1500, I'm willing to bet they'd have gone with Sample B.

[pyro-manic]

I think C is the most plausible. It uses many of the rail gun parts, and you could use perhaps 1:48 Panther track assemblies? It's a ridiculous concept overall, but C is probably the most workable.

[Gondor]

I agree that B and C are the best options and that C uses more components from the rail gun. However the way that Germany developed its weapons at that time I would expect them to make things far more complex than necessary so they would have built B.

Gondor

[zenrat]

B looks best to me.  But would you need a second monster carrying nothing but flak to protect it?

[scooter]

B looks best to me.  But would you need a second monster carrying nothing but flak to protect it?

An entire flakpanzer battalion.  And an entire panzergrenadier regiment to provide security.

[zenrat]

Or just one Flakmonster and one APCMonster

[scooter]

Or just one Flakmonster and one APCMonster

Or just a battalion of Rattes?

[seadude]

I agree that B and C are the best options and that C uses more components from the rail gun. However the way that Germany developed its weapons at that time I would expect them to make things far more complex than necessary so they would have built B.

Gondor

True. If the P1500 had been built, it most likely would have looked like B.

I think C is the most plausible. It uses many of the rail gun parts, and you could use perhaps 1:48 Panther track assemblies? It's a ridiculous concept overall, but C is probably the most workable.

Maybe........or maybe not. Something I just thought of tonight: What if C were built for real. And what if one of the Rattes were damaged, destroyed, or had other troubles that prevented it from operating/moving. Then the whole P1500 is pretty much stuck where it is.

Anyway, I've got a 1/144 scale Dora gun on the way to be delivered next week. But I need some type of tank or other hull to carry/transport it on. I would prefer not to scratchbuild an entire tank chassis/hull, but rather modify another tank hull kit. Would it be better to stick with the same 1/144 scale tank hull or use a slightly bigger 1/72 or other scale hull to hold the gun? Anybody got any ideas on what kits might be appropriate for modification?

[scooter]

Anybody got any ideas on what kits might be appropriate for modification?

Panther, Tiger II, Jagdpanzer I

[pyro-manic]

I think C is the most plausible. It uses many of the rail gun parts, and you could use perhaps 1:48 Panther track assemblies? It's a ridiculous concept overall, but C is probably the most workable.

Maybe........or maybe not. Something I just thought of tonight: What if C were built for real. And what if one of the Rattes were damaged, destroyed, or had other troubles that prevented it from operating/moving. Then the whole P1500 is pretty much stuck where it is.

The thing would never have been able to move anyway,  so I wouldn't worry too much about that!

As for your donor running gear chassis, you will surely need something bigger than a 1:72 tank if the Dora is 1:144. I suggested 1:48 Panthers or similar above. Maybe King Tiger hulls...

[zenrat]

...Would it be better to stick with the same 1/144 scale tank hull or use a slightly bigger 1/72 or other scale hull to hold the gun? Anybody got any ideas on what kits might be appropriate for modification?

1/35 AAV with the nose cut off?  It's a basically a big box on tracks and so possibly an ideal base if it scales out appropriately.

[seadude]

I've been browsing around the Net for a suitable hull/chassis to hold/transport the 1/144 Dora gun. Seems to me that 1/32, 1/35, 1/72, 1/144, or anything else between 1/32 and 1/144 is going to be too small of a hull. It's going to have to be something larger and it must be, or look, German. I have no intention of completely making a hull/chassis from scratch.
Here are some pics of the parts sprues I have of the 1/144 Dora railway gun model kit, as well as pics comparing the Dora parts to that of a 1/35 Abrams tank..
https://www.flickr.com/photos/72147279@N06/sets/72157651415576566/

If I can't build Sample B for any reason, then I might buy a 3rd P1000 Ratte and build Sample C.

[pyro-manic]

There are some 1:25 and 1:16 tank kits. Not cheap, though.