Home made tanks and other armor

[maxmwill]

I have a question.

Besides the Bob Semple tank of New Zealand and the Polish Kubus, what other home brew tanks or other armor were used, or attempted to be used, or never went past the planning stages, during WW2.

Incidentally, the Kubus is now in 1/72, by Mirage Hobby, no. 724001, and looks pretty nifty.

[rickshaw]

The "Terror Tanks of Odessa" were Soviet produced tanks using agricultural tracked tractors as a basis during 1941. In 1944, during the Warsaw Uprising the Poles produced a weird array of armour based on trucks and various other vehicles.  Since then, in Africa, Central and Southern America and basically anywhere there is trouble on the world stage, you'll find extemporised armour based on tractors/dozers/graders/etc.

[maxmwill]

I forgot about those.

I know that the Afgans have come up with some strange and wonderful pieces of armor.

[Mossie]

The very earliest tanks and armoured cars were just that.  Several of the tanks (A7V, Schneider) were based on Holt caterpillar tracks.  The British evaluated the Holt tracks and discarded them, going with a completely new design.  It worked (relatively) well and was superior to other heavy tanks of the period.

The approach was more successful with armoured cars.  The first cars were RNAS officers personal vehicles shipped over and armed and armoured.  As these proved successful, commercial operators used their existing chassis with armour.  Most of the major powers took this approach and many vehicle types were converted, including trucks, buses and tractors.

The Home Guard used improvised vehicles especially early on when all equipment was prioritised for the main army.  They varied from relatively sophisticated vehicles in limited production, to a private vehicles with minimal modifications.  It's done for comedic effect, but Jone's van in Dad's Army isn't far off what happened in the latter case.

[scooter]

And let's not forget about the hillbilly armoring of US and Allied forces in Iraq.  We got pretty inventive before the Level 2 kits and fully uparmored vehicles were available.  Including creating technicals out of issued vehicles.

[Mr.Creak]

There were numerous "armoured" vehicles made by using flat bed trucks with concrete pillboxes on the back.
I think they were extemporised for RAF airfield defence in case of an invasion.

[Mossie]

The Bisons.  Yeah, there where a number of types on different chassis, concrete being used due to the shortage of steel.  They were literally mobile pillboxes, the weight made it difficult from them to perform well and weren't intended as fighting vehicles as such.

[kerick]

Somewhat related question. I know there were guntrucks in Vietnam and in Iraq but what about WW2 and Korea? I haven't seen anything about it for WW2 and much of Korea gets left out of the history books.

[NARSES2]

Improvised AFV's ? Just look at any book to do with the Spanish Civil War - most civil wars as a matter of fact.

As for gun trucks in WWII and Korea ? Lots of light AAA was used in this role in both wars. You see lots of footage of German's using single and quad 20mm in the ground role during the advance into the Soviet Union. Footage of Allied use is seen a lot less but given the lack of their intended targets towards the end of the War then the US used the half track fitted with the 4 x 0.50's in the ground role and the British used Crusader AAA tanks in the same role. In Italy the lack of targets meant the British used their 3.7"AAA gun in the ground role. Apparently it was a very effective and accurate weapon. I know there was some form of ground mount for AT use developed for it but not used. Interesting weapon.

[kerick]

The latest is in Syria. I saw a pic of sheet steel welded together over a vehicle of some sort. moved pretty slow so it was probably a tracked construction vehicle.

[jcf]

The approach was more successful with armoured cars.  The first cars were RNAS officers personal vehicles shipped over and armed and armoured.  As these proved successful, commercial operators used their existing chassis with armour.  Most of the major powers took this approach and many vehicle types were converted, including trucks, buses and tractors.

Armored cars predate WWI and the RNAS ones were not 'the first cars', indeed the Russians did a lot of work on the concept before
the Brits and used them far more than anyone else.

[scooter]

Then there's this guy

Denver Post article reposted here

[jcf]

Somewhat related question. I know there were guntrucks in Vietnam and in Iraq but what about WW2 and Korea? I haven't seen anything about it for WW2 and much of Korea gets left out of the history books.

No 'guntrucks' as most conceive of them as neither WWII nor Korea were the kind of war where that sort of convoy protection
vehicle was needed.

For the predecessors of the Vietnam type look at Israel in the late 1940s, 'The War of Independence' period, 'Sandwich' cars etc.

For Iraq/Afghanistan, Rhodesia and South Africa, and whatta ya know, the MRAPS etc. are direct developments
of the v-bottomed mine-resistant patrol vehicles developed there.

[scooter]

Somewhat related question. I know there were guntrucks in Vietnam and in Iraq but what about WW2 and Korea? I haven't seen anything about it for WW2 and much of Korea gets left out of the history books.

What boggles my mind is why didn't the DoD use the lessons learned in Vietnam (and other low-intensity conflicts) about convoy escort, and keep them in the back of the playbook.  Then the wheel wouldn't have had to have been reinvented in the last 14 years.

[jcf]

Somewhat related question. I know there were guntrucks in Vietnam and in Iraq but what about WW2 and Korea? I haven't seen anything about it for WW2 and much of Korea gets left out of the history books.

What boggles my mind is why didn't the DoD use the lessons learned in Vietnam (and other low-intensity conflicts) about convoy escort, and keep them in the back of the playbook.  Then the wheel wouldn't have had to have been reinvented in the last 14 years.

From the USMC Small Wars Manual, 1940, Section 8-5:
Motor convoys are made up of military motor-transport units or of hired or un-requisitioned motor vehicles.
In any case, the convoy should be properly organized before starting the march.The escort may be carried
on the train or in separate vehicles capable of at least the same speed as the convoy. The slower elements
of the convoy should be placed in the lead. With suitable roads, motor transportation is peculiarly advantageous
for convoys because it is less vulnerable to small arms fire, and because of its speed and ability to travel long
distances with few halts. Fast tanks, armored cars, or trucks converted to serve as armored cars, may be
employed to great advantage in escorting motor convoys. If the enemy has made a practice of using land-mines,
it may be advisable to have a pilot cargo truck precede the point.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/swm/index.htm