World War One Whifs

Started by stevehed, April 10, 2015, 12:07:06 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Dizzyfugu

Uh, pretty with the Lozenge pattern on the wings.  :thumbsup: Decals, I assume?

stevehed

Thanks. The lozenge is Printscale. Pretty thin so care required but not bad. Centre section is painted onto Austro Hungarian lozenge from an Eastern Express Aviatik D1.

zenrat

Fred

- Can't be bothered to do the proper research and get it right.

Another ill conceived, lazily thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of half arsed what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

zenrat industries:  We're everywhere...for your convenience..

stevehed

Thanks Fred.  As can be seen I've been going through a bit of a floatplane phase recently. In the stash is a Gotha WD7 vacform from Sierrascale, a US company. This is a tractor twin and seems to have been used as a trainer introducing crews to larger operational twins. Curiosity roused I began enquiries and discovered a series of Gotha aircraft, the WD11 and 14 predominating, and similar aircraft from Hansa Brandenburg and Friedrichshafen. I fancied the WD14 the most and had a trawl through the spares. I knew there was a pair of floats that had come with the Curtiss Condor twin, a 30's design but they looked Germanic to me, and some sprues from the Roden Gotha G types. Among these were GVb engine nacelles, various struts, bombs and even exhausts. There is even a Vickers Vimy fuselage which I thought may be capable of being kit bashed. But the more I looked at it the more I realized that the Gotha fuselage would be easier to scratch than convert. However, there is a Friedrichshafen design, the FF35, that bears a striking similarity to the Vimy as far as the forward section of the fuselage is concerned. The rearmost section is deeper but the Vimy looks like a Gotha in this department. Combining the two would end up with a fuselage very like the Vimy so instead of scratching a Gotha I decided a twin engine whif based on German designs would be the simplest option.

Gotha floatplanes have tractor engines but the landplane bombers were pushers. The Roden nacelles are pushers which could be turned round with a bit of modification. But, ever conscious of creature comforts, I thought the crew might be a bit close to the prop wash and bits of ice. Most Gothas seem to have the main cockpit under the centre section but a pusher set up would mean the original cockpit could stay where it was and no remedial work would be needed on the nacelles. The FF35 was a pusher so I've had a look at the strut work but I think I'll stick with the Gotha Vb set up as it seems more straight forward. Wings have been cut from 80thou plastic card. This had a slight curved imparted by pushing it into a length of four inch diameter plastic pipe that had one end sealed. Almost boiling water is poured in and the heat allows the card to accept a slight bend. The wings are cut from this card and the curvature means only the top side needs to be worked on as far as the edges are concerned. The ribs and elevators are scored with a sharp Stanley knife as, personally, I haven't the patience for the thin rod method of rib creation. The wings are based on the WD14 but they are all similar to be honest. The tail units vary between the different designs and the WD14 looks the most striking.

I haven't any spare engines and only the uppermost area will be seen sticking out of the open nacelles. I find the thick sprue found in some of the older kits useful to use as engine sumps. The engines are supposed to be 200hp Benz motors. Six lengths of sprue, 0.2ins long, were glued along a length of thick sprue. The top and bottom were flattened. When secure holes were drilled to accept the manifold pipework and the exhausts. A dry run has shown they will fit into the nacelles so that will do me. Still in the design stage so once the nacelles are completed I need to consider the centre section strutwork.





NARSES2

Interesting combination of parts  :thumbsup:
Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

zenrat

<insert popcorn emoticon here>
Fred

- Can't be bothered to do the proper research and get it right.

Another ill conceived, lazily thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of half arsed what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

zenrat industries:  We're everywhere...for your convenience..

stevehed

Bit more done and hopefully Imgur will work. The top wing has been assembled. Composed of three parts I managed to drill a decent hole into the ends to take a locating pin. I'm painting them light grey undercoat before adding satin varnish before starting with the transfers. I haven't got enough of one kind of lozenge for a machine this large, 80 foot wingspan, so I'm going to have to make something up hence the dark grey fuselage and inner wings. Engines are in the nacelles and I've found a couple of props in the spares.



chrisonord

This is looking interesting  :thumbsup:
Chris
The dogs philosophy on life.
If you cant eat it hump it or fight it,
Pee on it and walk away!!

stevehed



Hi All,
            Painting has been the order of the day. The under surfaces of the wings are HU121 Stone which makes a decent CDL. The uppers are pale grey undercoat as I'm hoping to use spare Eastern Express lozenge. I've used lozenge from the EE Aviatik D1 Austro Hungarian fighter. It looks quite naval to my eyes but more Med than North Sea so I've decided this aircraft is going to end up in the Austro Hungarian Navy. Will have to get the thinking cap to come up with a plausible back story.

NARSES2

I like the idea of Austro-Hungarian Navy in the Adriatic  :thumbsup:

Looking good  :thumbsup:
Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

Dizzyfugu

The Lozenge pattern is looking pretty.  :thumbsup:

stevehed

Thanks Gents. There's more lozenge to come.

stevehed

Here's the back story and a little progress. I've scratched the tail unit from 40 thou card using the Gotha WD14 as the inspiration. The engines/nacelles are assembled and now in situ. Main job has been applying lozenge on the upper wing surfaces. They are Eastern Express from the HB W29 monoplane floater. It's a handy kit for conversions and I have three sets of transfers which still wasn't enough hence the dark grey on the lower wings around the engines.

During the first half of WW1 the German Navy relied on the Zeppelin for long range reconnaissance. Losses to enemy action, accidents and natural causes led to increasing use of aircraft, first to supplement the airships, and later to replace. The ideal design were the large R planes, powered by four engines in case of breakdowns, and capable of reaching the Royal Navy bases at Scapa Flow at the extreme north of the British Isles. Development was protracted and variants were only becoming available near to the end of the war. But increasing use was made of twin engine types. As engine reliability improved these aircraft ventured further and further afield. Endurance between seven and ten hours was achieved by 1918. Designs by Gotha predominated but others from Hansa Brandenburg, Friedrichshafen and Albatros were employed by the Kaiser Marine.

German procurement policy was to have a back up design in the event of supply issues with the preferred type. In 1917 Gotha was supplying the WD11 and 14, Friedrichshafen was a major navy supplier but production facilities were at full capacity. Albatros were in the same situation so this left Hansa Brandenburg. This company was building a twin engine bomber for the Austro Hungarian LFT. Naval contracts for the GW twin were drawing to a close and production of the KDW floatplane fighter were regarded as low priority. They were testing a two seat floatplane capable of fighting duties but it had yet to complete acceptance trials. To the naval hierarchy the company had experience and spare capacity.

The back up design had been created by the naval shipyard at Danzig, the Kaiserliche Werft Danzig. A small design and construction facility for aircraft existed and built a small series of trainers. They had been tasked to look at a Gotha back up and had modified a HB GW fuselage to accept additional fuel tanks. Wingspan was increased and not being bothered by patents, there's a war on you know, they decided on the Gotha configuration as best. Power was increased and 2 x 200hp Benz engines were fitted in a pusher set up. The floats were a Danzig design which the Austro Hungarians were to like but they weren't sufficiently better than current designs to justify setting up a new production line.

The aircraft was tested at Danzig during October 1917 and was pronounced as superior to the Gotha WD14. The main advantage was an increase in speed to 95mph, a welcome addition when it was expected that the Royal Navy would fit single seat aircraft such as the Pup and Camel to some warships. However, problems came to the fore when Hansa Brandenburg's new design, the W12, was accepted and the company was ordered to ramp up production. But a problem here can be an opportunity elsewhere.

HB's owner, Camillo Castiglioni, had large assets in the Austro Hungarian empire. These included the UFAG and Phoenix companies, two major suppliers of aircraft to the AH forces. There was close co-operation between Castiglioni companies and both these outfits had experience of building sea planes and UFAG had built half a dozen HB bombers for the LFT. He informed the KUK Seeflieger of developments and sent the new twins designs to UFAG closely followed by parts of the HB GW production line after the AH Navy had professed an interest. In Germany the LVG company proved to be capable of producing the WD14 should the need arise so the Danzig design became an Austro Hungarian project.

The intention was to provide three aircraft as operational prototypes for testing in the Adriatic by summer 1918. They arrived at Pola naval station in July and underwent trials through August and into September when they were declared operational. UFAG had fitted the AH licence built version of the Benz which produced 220hp. Operationally, they were employed on long range reconnaissance in support of U-Boats based at Cattaro. Enemy minefields and ASW patrols were of prime importance but it is possible, along with the tri-motor Albatros WD5 which entered service at the same time, they might have taken a close interest in the activities of Italian airships carrying out ASW patrols over the Straits of Otranto. No evidence of the type remains but it is thought they were scuttled when the Austrian forces withdrew from the Balkans at the end of the war. Had the war continued UFAG was capable of further production but no paper trail has been found.


NARSES2

Impressed with your storyline and also with the lozenge  :thumbsup:
Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

stevehed

Progress has slowed a bit as some schoolboy errors were corrected. I had cocked up the wing cut outs for the pusher props. On the lower wings I had only removed the innermost sections and had to extend them. On the top wing I had forgotten the cut outs altogether and had happily applied lozenge. Luckily a couple of very careful sessions with a razor saw managed to improve matters without any damage to the transfers. Once that had been seen to I drilled holes for the struts in both wings and located the struts onto the engine nacelles. I laid the upper wing flat and upended the fuselage and lower wings to align the struts with the wing. Left to almost set when it was checked for alignment. Once I was reasonably happy I started adding the interplane struts from 30x60thou strip and that's as far as I've got to date. Probably start on the floats next. The tail unit has been made from card but I'll save it for last as it'll probably get knocked off otherwise.