Inspirations Thread

[Old Wombat]

Dizzy linked to a site called Belgian Mini (http://www.sbap.be/models/models.htm) where I found this (not BoB but you see the point, yes?).

[rickshaw]

We also served and waited, during the Battle of Britain!

We didn't have much to start with...



But we slowly got better...



And better...





We waited, watching for the enemy...

[NARSES2]

So a Do.24 would fit right in then, plus with US engines, it might be supportable for quite a while.

Dutch had Do 24, but it might just have been out East ?

Why didn't French pilots escape to UK in their Morane-Saulnier M.S.406 fighters, instead of destroying them to prevent them from falling into enemy hands?

M.S.406 was no match for the Bf 109E, but could have done well against bombers, especially with the 20 mm gun.

Orders I'd guess. Remember, there was still a functioning, unoccupied French state to answer to at the point of surrender. Many people don't appreciate what a complex choice French soldiers had to make at that point.

Very true Harold. I've a couple of books on the subject and wouldn't have liked to be in their position.

There's a new French tv drama series called Resistance on More 4 on Fridays. Subtitled as was the recent one on the Norwegian resistance and the heavy water plant. Started last week, promising start.

[Dizzyfugu]

Dizzy linked to a site called Belgian Mini (http://www.sbap.be/models/models.htm) where I found this (not BoB but you see the point, yes?).

...and I am working on something similar - but more in "true" 1940 style. This one carries a later livery (1941 onwards), and I assume it was used as a training aircraft.
The Trumpeter kit I am building actually carries decals/markings for this aircraft - but a whif should look different, esp. for a BoB GB. 

[Weaver]

Odd there were no Dutch pilots. 

That puzzled me too.
From wikipedia:

Some aircrews escaped to England and on 1 June 1940, 320 Squadron and 321 Squadron were established there under RAF operational command. Due to a shortage of personnel, 321 Squadron was absorbed by 320 Sqn in January 1941. Although their personnel were predominantly from the Navy Air Service, Army Aviation aircrew also served with 320 Sqn until the end of the war.

So perhaps the distinction is they weren't part of the RAF but continued to operate as the Royal Netherlands Airforce to some extent?

320 were assigned to Coastal Command. Since it's specifically about the BoB rather than the war as a whole, I'm guessing that graphic only lists Fighter Command pilots or some other subset of the total pilots in the UK at the time.

[Weaver]

So a Do.24 would fit right in then, plus with US engines, it might be supportable for quite a while.

Dutch had Do 24, but it might just have been out East ?

As far as I can see, all 30-odd built pre-occupation did go out to the Far East, but they were planning to build 90, so I suspect they would have eventually replaced the Fokker T.VIIIs in home waters too at some point. You might easily imagine priorities being reversed for some reason and some being in the Netherlands in 1940.

Some mixed signals on how much they could or would have been suported in the UK though. On the one hand, the Fokker T.VIIIs that made it to the UK, and which also had US engines, were phased out pretty quickly for lack of spares regardless, but on the other hand six Dutch East Indies Do 24s served with the RAAF until 1944. Makes you wonder how much of the RAF decision about the Fokkers was really down to spares and how much down to a desire to eliminate a non-standard aircraft with a non-critical capability from the logistics train. Do 24s were good, so maybe they'd have been keener on keeping them going.

Why didn't French pilots escape to UK in their Morane-Saulnier M.S.406 fighters, instead of destroying them to prevent them from falling into enemy hands?

M.S.406 was no match for the Bf 109E, but could have done well against bombers, especially with the 20 mm gun.

Orders I'd guess. Remember, there was still a functioning, unoccupied French state to answer to at the point of surrender. Many people don't appreciate what a complex choice French soldiers had to make at that point.

Very true Harold. I've a couple of books on the subject and wouldn't have liked to be in their position.

Indeed. Your heart may be telling you one thing, but as a soldier of a democracy you've sworn to obey the logal civilian government, and if they're telling you to do something different then choosing to disobey is effectively committing treason. It's also worth remmebering that in 1940, de Gaulle wasn't the giant figure he later became. He wasn't particularly well known or universally liked, and his initial appeals to join the Free French wern't heard by many people.

[zenrat]

When in what was Vichy France (by which I mean the bit that wasn't occupied - The Dordogne for example) "collaborateur" is still an insult (handy to remember).  It is usually met with protestations that the insultee's grandparents were active in the resistance.  And if they are all telling the truth then it would have been the 2nd or 3rd largest army in the war.

[Old Wombat]

When in what was Vichy France (by which I mean the bit that wasn't occupied - The Dordogne for example) "collaborateur" is still an insult (handy to remember).  It is usually met with protestations that the insultee's grandparents were active in the resistance.  And if they are all telling the truth then it would have been the 2nd or 3rd largest army in the war.

They're probably all talking about the same 2 grandparents ...

[NARSES2]

As I've got older I don't comment on peoples behaviour during an occupation. I have never been put in that position and thus have no idea how I would behave. Probably just try and keep my head down and mind my own business, as most do

[rickshaw]

As I've got older I don't comment on peoples behaviour during an occupation. I have never been put in that position and thus have no idea how I would behave. Probably just try and keep my head down and mind my own business, as most do

As I more than likely would (along with the occasional minor pieces of disinformation/sabotage).  I would hope that the good guys would win and I'd help them as much as I could but I'd also remember I have a family...   

[zenrat]

Hasn't Britain been constantly in a state of occupation since 1066?

But back to the GB.
Merlin engined Beaufighter fits the eligibility.  What if both sides had gone the heavy fighter route?  Beau vs Bf 110 over the White Cliffs.

[Captain Canada]

Merlin engine Beau eh ? I like that idea....think I might have some old kits to make it happen as well !

[NARSES2]

Hasn't Britain been constantly in a state of occupation since 1066?

Well if we are being like that  Back until 52 AD (from memory (school books, not mine  ) with the Roman's, then the Saxons, Angles and Jutes or go back to the first Celt migration to these islands.

[The Wooksta!]

Hasn't Britain been constantly in a state of occupation since 1066?

But back to the GB.
Merlin engined Beaufighter fits the eligibility.  What if both sides had gone the heavy fighter route?  Beau vs Bf 110 over the White Cliffs.

I just need to sort out the tailplanes on mine, not to mention find the u/c, and I can get mine finished.  Although I may just steal it from a Matchbox one.

[Hman]

How about the Westland Whirlwind?  Found this on Wiki, perhaps someone with better knowledge could confirm its accuracy...

"It was instead decided that the first Whirlwind squadron would be 263 Squadron, which was reforming at Grangemouth, Scotland after disastrous losses in the Norwegian Campaign. The first production Whirlwind was delivered to No. 263 Squadron by its commander, Squadron Leader H. Eeles on 6 July. Deliveries were slow, with only five on strength with 263 Squadron on 17 August 1940, with none serviceable.[22] (The squadron supplemented its strength with Hawker Hurricanes to allow the squadron's pilots to fly in the meantime. Despite the Battle of Britain and the consequent urgent need for fighters, 263 Squadron remained in Scotland - Air Chief Marshall Hugh Dowding, in charge of RAF Fighter Command, stated on 17 October that 263 could not be deployed to the south because "there was no room for 'passengers' in that part of the world"."