The Chat

[The Chaos]

Gread Ideas.
My Idea is a Nimrod AEW 3

from http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/maritime/nimrod/nimrod_aew3_03.jpg

or much coller a Victor AEW 3 

the problem.
I need time for that 

[scooter]

Probably an also-ran colossal cliche but I rather like the idea of F-14s in RAF service, brought online from 1975 to replace Lightnings being phased out. Phoenix armed primarily as long-range bomber-killers with Tornado F3s as fighters. Be fun to see both next to each other in RAF greys.

It was seriously considered in real life, with some RN admirals being particularly keen on the idea. The main arguments against it were cost, the F-14's engine troubles, and the fact that the F-14's future was uncertain at the time the decision had to be made. Cost issues didn't just affect the purchase price but also the cost of training with Phoenix, and without Phoenix, the Tomcat was felt to be over-price and over-spec.

You could easily concoct a scenario that comes to a different conclusion: cancelled MRCA programme, richer & more US-oriented UK, Speys to replace the TF-30s etc... It would probabkly be an alternative to the Tornado F.3 rahter than additional to it though.

Four planes now in the works... Where will I find the time?

[kitnut617]

This;



was something I had planned to do on another forum which was running a similar GB.

I wouldn't mind trying to build it now, this was taken only a short while ago and hasn't progressed since

[Librarian]

Probably an also-ran colossal cliche but I rather like the idea of F-14s in RAF service, brought online from 1975 to replace Lightnings being phased out. Phoenix armed primarily as long-range bomber-killers with Tornado F3s as fighters. Be fun to see both next to each other in RAF greys.

It was seriously considered in real life, with some RN admirals being particularly keen on the idea. The main arguments against it were cost, the F-14's engine troubles, and the fact that the F-14's future was uncertain at the time the decision had to be made. Cost issues didn't just affect the purchase price but also the cost of training with Phoenix, and without Phoenix, the Tomcat was felt to be over-price and over-spec.

You could easily concoct a scenario that comes to a different conclusion: cancelled MRCA programme, richer & more US-oriented UK, Speys to replace the TF-30s etc... It would probabkly be an alternative to the Tornado F.3 rahter than additional to it though.

Probably walking into a minefield here but I've never been convinced about a dogfighting Tomcat. Sure, it had the power and missile capability but could it really outmanoeuvre A-4s and F-5s into a guns only fight as in "Top Turd"? I'd use the F-14 ONLY as the Phoenix carrier with an ability to get out of trouble and get its crew/radar home. Cost is the main issue here...lets say we're oil-rich and we've got F-16s and F-15s too .

The engine problems are an important conversion thought process...Speys would be fun. The other was for carrier use; always amused by the nose-down attitude of launching Tomcats...how about the other way...long-stalk nosegear, nose-high.

[sandiego89]

Probably walking into a minefield here but I've never been convinced about a dogfighting Tomcat. Sure, it had the power and missile capability but could it really outmanoeuvre A-4s and F-5s into a guns only fight as in "Top Turd"?....

In a slow dogfight the A-4 or F-5 would typically be the victor, but remember Top Gun was all about teaching the crews to use their advantages, use energy management,  and never get into a slower speed knife fight with an enemy that had better slower speed maneuverability.  That lesson had been lost over Vietnam. 

Remember it was a movie.....but the Tomcat was no slouch....

[Captain Canada]

The Nimrod ! Always wanted an excuse to build one  Maybe finally do that Victor as well.

[scooter]

Suddenly topical Cold War article at The Verge

[Weaver]

Probably an also-ran colossal cliche but I rather like the idea of F-14s in RAF service, brought online from 1975 to replace Lightnings being phased out. Phoenix armed primarily as long-range bomber-killers with Tornado F3s as fighters. Be fun to see both next to each other in RAF greys.

It was seriously considered in real life, with some RN admirals being particularly keen on the idea. The main arguments against it were cost, the F-14's engine troubles, and the fact that the F-14's future was uncertain at the time the decision had to be made. Cost issues didn't just affect the purchase price but also the cost of training with Phoenix, and without Phoenix, the Tomcat was felt to be over-price and over-spec.

You could easily concoct a scenario that comes to a different conclusion: cancelled MRCA programme, richer & more US-oriented UK, Speys to replace the TF-30s etc... It would probabkly be an alternative to the Tornado F.3 rahter than additional to it though.

Probably walking into a minefield here but I've never been convinced about a dogfighting Tomcat. Sure, it had the power and missile capability but could it really outmanoeuvre A-4s and F-5s into a guns only fight as in "Top Turd"? I'd use the F-14 ONLY as the Phoenix carrier with an ability to get out of trouble and get its crew/radar home. Cost is the main issue here...lets say we're oil-rich and we've got F-16s and F-15s too .

The engine problems are an important conversion thought process...Speys would be fun. The other was for carrier use; always amused by the nose-down attitude of launching Tomcats...how about the other way...long-stalk nosegear, nose-high.

Well for the over-water fleet cover/UK air defence role envisaged for the Tornado F.3, there was nothing to dogfight with at the time. The opposition would have been Bears and Backfires that defended themselves with ECM and speed (in the case of the Tu-22M) rather than aggressive maneuvering.

Of course, you might want a dogfighter in Germany to provide top cover for BAOR, in which case the F-16 would be the best bet. There were also some tasty UK projects along similar lines (Brough's P.196 springs to mind). Now there's an idea: the UK buys the Tomcat for the patrol interceptor role, then develops an exportable F-16 competitor instead of buying the Tornado F.3. It could be a CTOL light fighter like the P.196 or a STOVL design like the P.1216.

[Nick]

Sirs,

I must object vigorously to this 'Cold War Group Build' of which you are suggesting. It is utter folly to persist on a topic of such a huge breadth of history with such wide ranging choices of participants. How could one possibly choose a vehicular subject with which to inaccurately represent an event that hardly happened?


Thanks to my extensive military career having watched Dad's Army, fired an air rifle and been shouted at by a Guards Sergeant Major (not all at the same time I hasten to add) I consider myself uniquely positioned to comment on this topic. Of course.  

Furthermore there is the question of nationality. I am British, which all would agree is the best   , but what other nations could I dare to consider in this quest for plastic profoundity? Should I play with one of the colonial breakaways or our so-called friends in Europe? Dare I create a work with a Red Star upon and doubtless be branded a Commie?  

Yours,
Disgruntled of Essex  

P.S. I have over 100 kits in my stash to choose from for this. How on earth do I choose?

[tigercat]

I recommend numbering then selecting the numbers that correspond to your favourite Chinese takeaway order.

[Librarian]

....and then I've just remembered the new 1/48 F-20 Tigershark kit

[Weaver]

Thanks to my extensive military career having watched Dad's Army, fired an air rifle and been shouted at by a Guards Sergeant Major (not all at the same time I hasten to add)

Actually, you'd only have to do the first two of those things at the same time to pretty much guarantee the third...

[Dizzyfugu]

Why pose more than 100 kits a problem...? There's three months to go. 

[Captain Canada]

lol Nick nice Sunday Morning funny there ! For sure it`s going to be hard to pick. How about some RAF or RN types over here É Lots of scope there, shooting down Rooskie bombers, defending the North Pole or West Coast etc. I`m thinking bombers, as well as Marville and baden 

[loupgarou]

Most of models proposed appear to be from the western side of the iron courtain.
We need some opposants too.
I have the wreck of a Tu-144 by Plasticart, glued with all-purpose glue and already dismantled. I'd like to build the "famous" bombarirovskyi version.
And I have a - long ago - started build: a tactical transport from the fifties:
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,38826.0/highlight,heller.html

Could I continue with this build (if I manage to find the parts  ) for the GB, or it's already too far advanced?
It would give me a chance of missing yet another deadline.