HMS Cumberland 1977

[Gondor]

Not that old and certainly not the modern rubbish they teach at school these days.

I was taught how to count in Roman numerals once, back in the early MXMLXX's as the teacher thought it was something we needed to know.   

So the measurements would be:

               Cumberland             Scale size in Inches     Scale size in Centimetres

  Beam:        LXV feet                        I.III                           III.XXII
                                                                   

Length:    DCXXXIII feet                   XI.LXVI                    XXXII.MDLXIV   

                                                         
Hight*:    CXXV.VI feet                     II.DXII                       VI.XXXVIII

*Measured from the waterline

Remembering that the sizes given in Inches and Centimetres are for the model not the ship.



Gondor

[kerick]

Thank God we didn't end up with Roman system of numerals. Algebra with XYZ and X,V and I ? I never would have made it.

[zenrat]

Not that old and certainly not the modern rubbish they teach at school these days.

I was taught how to count in Roman numerals once, back in the early MXMLXX's as the teacher thought it was something we needed to know.   

So the measurements would be:

               Cumberland             Scale size in Inches     Scale size in Centimetres

  Beam:        LXV feet                        I.III                           III.XXII
                                                                   

Length:    DCXXXIII feet                   XI.LXVI                    XXXII.MDLXIV   

                                                         
Hight*:    CXXV.VI feet                     II.DXII                       VI.XXXVIII

*Measured from the waterline

Remembering that the sizes given in Inches and Centimetres are for the model not the ship.



Gondor

Shouldn't those measurements be in cubits, pes & digitus? 

[Weaver]

Gondor, as a member of the forum that the original drawing came from the scale that we use is 2 pixels = 1 ft, that should help you scale correctly

That's no help at all as its difficult to know how big the pixels are when the drawing is printed out. I am simply using good old fashioned maths and a ruler to scale everything.

Gondor

True, but if you open the image I sent you in Paint, you can count the pixels and thereby find out how big certain features are. That's how I got the length figure in the first place. I made the drawing to 'looks about right' standard then made a 'measuring stick' 100 pixels long and used that to establish the length.

[Gondor]

Gondor, as a member of the forum that the original drawing came from the scale that we use is 2 pixels = 1 ft, that should help you scale correctly

That's no help at all as its difficult to know how big the pixels are when the drawing is printed out. I am simply using good old fashioned maths and a ruler to scale everything.

Gondor

True, but if you open the image I sent you in Paint, you can count the pixels and thereby find out how big certain features are. That's how I got the length figure in the first place. I made the drawing to 'looks about right' standard then made a 'measuring stick' 100 pixels long and used that to establish the length.

The main thing is that it will look right when I have finished it or at least close enough to the profile for people not to be able to tell the difference or that will not be easily explainable away.

Very tempted to work out the Cubit measurement version. 

Gondor

[Gondor]

Thought I better do something as its coming up on the 2/3rds of the way through the GB point and nothing else has been done with this build 

So with Thorvic's donation of several Airfix 1/600 ships from his stash to mine, he tells me he has moved to 1/700 scale ships so I gain several parts to help with this build 

Unfortunately things are not as straight forward as all that. The Type 984 radar for the Cumberland will either be from one of the kits I now have or scratch built as I have plans to use three in total and I only have two that came with the HMS Victorious kits that I now have and the Cumberland makes three required so one has to be scratch built at some time.

What I have to work with by Airfix to make the Type 984 radar





As you can see from both pictures, at least one part will have to be modified as the "pole" that the body of the radar unit sits on is off centre so will need to be centred which should be quite straight forward, famous last words....

Gondor

[Gondor]

Could a Moderator move this build out of the Group Build area and into the Ships section of Current and Finished pleased as there is no way I will be able to get this build finished by the deadline but I want to keep it open as I will still be building it.

Gondor

[Crackingjob]

Hi I served on HMS Fife in the late 70,s. Sea slug missile system was very old by then and Sea Dart was the way forward. When the slug went off the whole ship rocked....( the missile weighed 2 tons) the launcher was at the rear as the magazine ran 2/3rds along inside the ship and fed horizontally. The guidence radar type 901, was so heavy it had to be on a reinforced cradle causing the helicopter hanger door to be on the side....making it a pig to get the mk3 Wessex helicopter out sideways in rough seas.....also the weight of the radar effected the stability of the ship.....heavy weight high up...so the 30 ton 984 radar maybe a major problem for you.
Just out of interest, I understand the County Class were conceived as a light cruiser and would have had a 3rd turret and 4th at the rear in place of the helicopter deck and missile launcher, but redesigned around the sea slug missile, and helicopter added as an after thought.
The Chillians have altered the rear of the ones they bought with a large hanger .
To understand the RN then, it's changing policy and odd results look at how HMS Bristol, Tiger and Blake turned out.
Gone further with the build? Like to see what you have done

[Joe C-P]

Have a look at what Chile did with those ships for inspiration.

[Weaver]

Hi I served on HMS Fife in the late 70,s. Sea slug missile system was very old by then and Sea Dart was the way forward. When the slug went off the whole ship rocked....( the missile weighed 2 tons) the launcher was at the rear as the magazine ran 2/3rds along inside the ship and fed horizontally. The guidence radar type 901, was so heavy it had to be on a reinforced cradle causing the helicopter hanger door to be on the side....making it a pig to get the mk3 Wessex helicopter out sideways in rough seas.....also the weight of the radar effected the stability of the ship.....heavy weight high up...so the 30 ton 984 radar maybe a major problem for you.
Just out of interest, I understand the County Class were conceived as a light cruiser and would have had a 3rd turret and 4th at the rear in place of the helicopter deck and missile launcher, but redesigned around the sea slug missile, and helicopter added as an after thought.
The Chillians have altered the rear of the ones they bought with a large hanger .
To understand the RN then, it's changing policy and odd results look at how HMS Bristol, Tiger and Blake turned out.
Gone further with the build? Like to see what you have done

Nice to hear from somebody who's been there are done it! 

The history of RN cruiser, cruiser/destroyer and destroyer design/policy is VERY convoluted and would fill a page to explain. The best affordable resource is a book called Rebuilding The Royal Navy by D.K.Brown, who was a naval constructor during the relevent period.

To cut a long story very short, the County design was adopted when the previous plans to put Seaslug on new cruisers proved too expensive. As such, they always had the Seaslug twin launcher, but earlier iterations had Limbo and no helicopter. The Wessex was a late addition and that goes part way to explaining its Heat-Robinson hangar setup. There was actually a proposal to give one in four Counties a type 984 in place of both gun turrets but it never happened.

Re topweight on my Cumberland design, note that the ship is a lot bigger than a standard County in both length, beam and displacement due to it's nuclear/steam powerplant. It's about the same size as the French Suffren class, which also carried a similarly huge air-search radar and two SAM trackers. This also helps with the helo sitation, since Cumberland has two hangars, located right out at the edge of the deck, with conventional doors. The helos still have to go down the side of the aft Type 901 deckhouse, but at least they don't have to shimmy sideways to get into the hangar!

               County Class        Cumberland
  Beam:        53 feet              65 feet
Length:      520.33 feet         633 feet

The Chilean conversions were the inspiration behind the 1980s rebuild of Cumberland into a helicopter/command ship, but that's not the version Gondor chose to model. If you have a look at post #281 on this thread, you can get the full story: http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,19781.15.html

[Gondor]

I have unfortunately not got any further with this build. I have a tendency to start far more builds than I finish although I really do want to finish this build to confuse the JMN's at shows.

Gondor

[Crackingjob]

I have unfortunately not got any further with this build. I have a tendency to start far more builds than I finish although I really do want to finish this build to confuse the JMN's at shows.

Gondor

I know the feeling, I do the same and have too many half done projects.....and I too like to shake the rivet counters at shows.
Thanks Weaver....yes your right it is a looooong story re the RN requirements. I think everything went down the pan with cuts by various governments including the CVA 01 carrier, for which the need for air defence and picket ships with large radars for tracking were required.
I look forward to the results.