Whiffing an F-105?

[tahsin]

Proved to those who actually paid attention. There's a difference between those who are given sales brochures and actual combat records. MiG-21 was all about being light in addition to being an interceptor and it lost its guns only gradually. Getting them back after pressure from the Indians who needed it as a fighter and their own observers from Vietnam who slowly discovered that the then current American training was not all it was cracked to be. Even if lack of ways of reliable gunsights and one expects, guns, at the time would keep on bedevilling the MiGs. As for agility of the F-104 you are talking the specific case of MiG-15 outperforming the Sabre at high altitude and always keeping out of the way when the situation did not promise a very easy kill. Considering the F-104 was also supposed to have a bubblegum in the windscreen as the gunsight it would immediately require a re-think. If it wasn't produced by Lockheed, on which less said the better.

as for Phantom's pedigree and it being a tiger on paper you can either consider that you have won the argument, or you may not. But Eisenhower liked it; his oft quoted Military Industrial Complex speech involves his hard work of getting it cleared as a support for the F8U, another hard work of his. Esienhower studied WW II harder  people can even imagine today. He could only hint that the F7U needed more support that it was given and its parent company pushed to succeed. If not positively helped. Which also helps to explain how McDonnell got away with the disaster the Demon was.

[PR19_Kit]

Oi, you two!

This thread is about Whiffing F-105s, NOT about the pluses and minuses of Phantoms.

[elmayerle]

A few thoughts:
- F-105 with Draken-style wings, combine 1/48 Draken and 1/72 F-105 (thinking of doing this with a F-105F as an alternate A36 in Swedish markings)
- two side-by-side smaller engines for 1/72 F-105 (something like a pair of J79s)
- enlarged twin-J75 variant, model using 1/48 wing and center fuselage, and tail surfaces, 1/72 F-105 forward fuselage, two F-105 rear fuselages (something similar is what I have in mind for modeling a Republic AP-75 using XF-105 aerodynamic surfaces)
- With Lightning-style double engines, use a lower Fieri inlet, ala' F-103

[Weaver]

Rocket-powered interceptor or even SSTO space-fighter: replace the wings with thin, intakeless ones (1/48th F-104 or 1/72nd deltas of some kind), and fit a big rocket nozzle in place of the afterburner nozzle.

Oh, and remember to use the wings & intakes on something else quickly before the Ferri-Fan-Boy hunting parties find you.... 

[scooter]

Iran, IIAF then IRIAF.  Can you imagine them reverse engineering them in the late 90s and still flying?   

Iranian F-105D WIP

(Original image by Darth Panda)

[Snowtrooper]

Since the Thud already looks overscale, why not take the idea to the max - 1/72 cockpit and ordnance on a 1/48 Thud? The end result would roughly be in the same "scale" as a 1/72 B-47. Still powered by a single engine of course, possibly a militarized JT9D from 747 To think of the amount of ordnance you could fit under the wings Of course, with this "superscale" model you could then have the same treatment as RB-47H had, ie. make it an ELINT bird with the bomb bay replaced with a pressurized crew compartment and bulging radomes absolutely everywhere.

Then again, either with the "superscale" or regular model, with that hulking fuselage, maybe it could be converted into a fast VIP passenger jet? Huntsman beware! Or, as a derivative of it, an extreme paratrooper transport, able to get a small number of agents or SF operators "safely" into areas where the Herky bird couldn't? (Extraction might be problematic though - Skyhook retrieval would be even more back-snapping experience...)

Rebirth of the parasite fighter concept, with a Bede Microjet semi-recessed in a modified bay?

Stealth demonstrator? After all, that F-105 had such a small RCS on approach was one of the initial motivators to investigate reducing radar signature on purpose (or so the tale goes). V-tail, angular radome (F-22 nose?), reshaped lower fuselage...

[Steel Penguin]

keep the intakes, but go for a forward swept wing

[PR19_Kit]

I can see I'll have to get some more F-105 kits.  

This is up to FIVE pages now! 

[Weaver]

Since the Thud already looks overscale, why not take the idea to the max - 1/72 cockpit and ordnance on a 1/48 Thud? The end result would roughly be in the same "scale" as a 1/72 B-47. Still powered by a single engine of course, possibly a militarized JT9D from 747 To think of the amount of ordnance you could fit under the wings Of course, with this "superscale" model you could then have the same treatment as RB-47H had, ie. make it an ELINT bird with the bomb bay replaced with a pressurized crew compartment and bulging radomes absolutely everywhere.

Then again, either with the "superscale" or regular model, with that hulking fuselage, maybe it could be converted into a fast VIP passenger jet? Huntsman beware! Or, as a derivative of it, an extreme paratrooper transport, able to get a small number of agents or SF operators "safely" into areas where the Herky bird couldn't? (Extraction might be problematic though - Skyhook retrieval would be even more back-snapping experience...)

Rebirth of the parasite fighter concept, with a Bede Microjet semi-recessed in a modified bay?

Stealth demonstrator? After all, that F-105 had such a small RCS on approach was one of the initial motivators to investigate reducing radar signature on purpose (or so the tale goes). V-tail, angular radome (F-22 nose?), reshaped lower fuselage...

I love all of this, but you could also go the other way too: take the 1/100th Tamiya/Ben Hobby F-105 and fit a 1/72nd pilot and canopy to it to make a light fighter.

[FAR148]

F-105 with Draken-style wings

Oh! That would be cool

[Scooterman]

Iranian F-105D WIP

(Original image by Darth Panda)

BINGO!!

[elmayerle]

F-105 with Draken-style wings

Oh! That would be cool

More like "will be".  I've got the necessary "bits and pieces", just need time and effort to put them together properly.  It's still an easier scheming than a Republic AP-75.

However, work on 1:1 scale V-22's keeps me rather busy at present (I'm a Senior Design Specialist with Bell).

[Snowtrooper]

Regarding re-winging, scale-o-rama 1:72 Victor/Valiant/Vulcan wings onto a 1:48 Thud? (The Vulcan variant would naturally lose the tailplanes.) Optionally keep the Ferri intakes, or go whole Hog and use the V-Bombers' intakes instead (though how to lose the engines in the wings in the latter case might require quite a bit of PSR) -- it was the wingroot intakes that led me to this path.

Also, if doing a straight-winged CAS/maritime strike variant, a 1:48 F9F Panther could donate its wings to a 1:72 Thud, again, the option to replace the Ferri intakes is there...

[Dizzyfugu]

I love all of this, but you could also go the other way too: take the 1/100th Tamiya/Ben Hobby F-105 and fit a 1/72nd pilot and canopy to it to make a light fighter.

Here you are... 

1:72 Republic F-109C "Thunderdart"; BuNo 62-28502 of 121st Fighter Squadron, 113th Fighter Wing; (District of) Columbia Air National Guard; Andrews Army Air Field, summer 1972 (Whif/Kit-bashing) by dizzyfugu, on Flickr

The 1:100 fuselage is a bit tight for 1:72, but could work. In the above case the fuselage comes from a MiG-21 F-13.

[tahsin]

Oi, you two!

This thread is about Whiffing F-105s, NOT about the pluses and minuses of Phantoms.

Why, no problem...

There is this "argument" in the F-105 thread that goes on like this:

And you sort of just missed a chance to see why the F-104 was actually to have longer wings but clipped to reach Mach 2 way before any Phantom...