Convoy escort cruiser - Joffre

[proditor]

With the end of the second world war, the immediate post-war years led to a lot of soul searching and reflection on what did, and what did not work. This took on a more urgent cast as the Soviet machine began to roll through Eastern Europe. Thoughts of another ground war on the continent terrified many, and sparked immediate concern for how they'd get reinforcements and material from the United States. Convoys were seen as a given, but the possibility of self-escorting convoys was brought up again, and then quickly dismissed.

The lessons of the CAM ships were not forgotten however, and the United States had already started a competition to create a V/TOL fighter capable of launching from something other than an aircraft carrier. With the Lockheed Salmon managing to secure international orders after being retrofit with the newly designed XT40-A-14 turboprop, the French decided to create a ship that would combine the duties of a light cruiser and a jeep carrier.

After the extensive modifications that created the Battle-carrier Richelieu, the available 6" secondaries would form the basis of the main armament, and the Salmon would provide the aircraft escort. In coordination with other escort vessels, this was seen as one way to free up flight decks for combat operations.

The final piece of the puzzle was the development of the Beartrap/RAST machinery by Canada and the US, allowing the landing of these odd fighters to take place with much less risk.


So that's the backstory I have so far, because I have leftover 6" french secondaries from the previously mentioned Richelieu rebuild, and some neat Salmon V/TOL fighters in 1/700 from Shapeways. The inspiration is the Jean d'Arc, as I've always been a fan of those long open flight deck half carriers.

I'm using a much different starting point than usual, which will either be a stroke of genius, or an absolutely horrific idea.



Yup, an old Matchbox Seakings Convoy Escort (which seems fitting).

[PR19_Kit]

Coooer, great minds think alike. 

See this excerpt from my 'First Vertical' back story for the Convair-Hawker Osprey F1 model back in 2008.

    This latter exercise had a great impact on Aeronavale thinking, and it
    may be interesting to briefly explore the subsequent French approach to
    shipboard VTOL flying. Negotiations were opened with Convair and the US
    Government during the Spring of '57, eventually resulting in a French
    order for 24 of the Convair aircraft, and a further order of 20 during
    1958. The French aircraft reverted to the US armament of twin 20mm
    cannon, in this case sourced nationally by DEFA, and 18 FF rockets
    housed in the tip pods. For some obscure tactical reason the 44 F3Y-3s,
    as they were designated, were not fitted with radar, improving their
    climb rate, but making them wholly dependent on the radar pickets for
    command and control. The Aeronavale named their F3Y-3s as Tornade
    (Whirlwind) and uniquely amongst F3Y operators, built two specially
    designed ships to operate the VTOL squadrons, the Seine and the Rhone.

     These two ships were like carriers in that they had large flight decks
    compared to the size of the superstructure, but the bridge was placed
    right in the bows and was complemented by a twin hangar deck lift right
    in the stern. The overall configuration was similar to a smaller
    version of the two later Royal Navy assault ships, HMS Intrepid and
    Fearless, although only half the size. The picket radar sets were
    incorporated into the design, and thus formed a compact local fleet
    defence unit, which suited the Aeronavale thinking at the time, but
    differed from the very much smaller units adopted by the FAA and the
    USN.

Full story, including the model,  here :- http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,22263.0/highlight,osprey.html

[proditor]

Very cool. You absolutely NEED to post some more pictures of that plane! 

[PR19_Kit]

There's five more in my Gallery here

http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php?action=gallery;cat=23

toward the bottom of the page.

[Mossie]

Yup, an old Matchbox Seakings Convoy Escort (which seems fitting).

Death or glory!!!   

[proditor]

I'm pretty happy with what we have so far.

I grabbed some metal sandpaper and went to town on the old crusty paint job. Underneath was this lovely metal which was then metal polished to get rid of any big gouges I might have put in there while sanding. Then I clad the upper works with sheet styrene. I'm really digging the look so far. I should be able to get some more done tonight, with pics to follow tomorrow (hopefully).

[Captain Canada]

Death or glory!!!   

lol exactly ! Cool idea loved those things as a kid.

[Weaver]

Cool project! I've always liked those 'flight deck cruisers' too, although my favorite has to be the Vittorio Veneto.

The usual reason given for the Lockheed and Convair VATOL projects being abandoned was that it was too difficult to land them with the pilot looking over his shoulder and trying to balance the plane at the same time. I can't help feeling though, that if they'd put the projects on hold for a few years rather than cancelling them, that closed-circuit TV and auto-stabilisers could have done a lot to make them workable. Of course that wouldn't have solved the problem of them being much slower than jet fighters by that point.

[sandiego89]

Cool project! I've always liked those 'flight deck cruisers' too, although my favorite has to be the Vittorio Veneto.

The usual reason given for the Lockheed and Convair VATOL projects being abandoned was that it was too difficult to land them with the pilot looking over his shoulder and trying to balance the plane at the same time. I can't help feeling though, that if they'd put the projects on hold for a few years rather than cancelling them, that closed-circuit TV and auto-stabilisers could have done a lot to make them workable. Of course that wouldn't have solved the problem of them being much slower than jet fighters by that point.

In the Naval Fighters book on the Pogo it is surmised that a control mixer for the hydraulic controls could have been made up, and was actually drawn up but never fitted.  The controls were all hydraulic.  As the aircraft transitioned to VTOL the mixer would kick in and the controls would phase into moving the controls differently, for example left side stick would no longer move the ailerons (roll), but would move the rudders to create sideways movement, etc. etc.  Kind of like the F-35B some 60 years later.    

[zenrat]

And as for looking over their shoulder, had they not heard of mirrors?

[proditor]

More pics!

First off we have a side shot, as the last photo really doesn't convey the shinyness of the sides right now. It's going to be a shame when I get around to paint.



Next, we have the current major parts. There will also be boats, and some doors and deck fittings, but these are the major bits. We have 6" gun turrets, 3" dual mounts, the rear gunnery tower from a North Carolina, The crane from a Rodney, Mast from a Japanese destroyer escort, Hydraulic lift assembly from a Minsk, and Salmons courtesy of Shapeways.



And the last shot is how I think it's all going to go together.

[sandiego89]

Looking great.   I have been very tempted to get some Shapeways aircraft, but was put off as so many of the subjects on their site only showed computer renderings, and not the real 3D printed results.  I worried I would get a blob with many squared off bits, but your Salmon fighters look good (a close up would be great). 

How else was Shapeways?  Quick delivery?

Looking forward to your build!

- Dave   

[proditor]

Delivery has always been decent. I'm a huge Amazon user, so I'm really spoiled by their two day delivery, but in general, it'll take them about a week to get most small orders cast, and then however long it takes first class mail to get delivered from them to you. Here was my most recent order placed on May 21.

Order #1333702
1 x Spacey box-head in Frosted Ultra Detail (This is a 28mm ROM miniature because I am a superhero geek)
1 x Robot Punch in Frosted Ultra Detail (This is a 28mm Atomic Robo miniature for the exact same reason)
1 x APAR Mast 1/700 in Frosted Ultra Detail
1 x Anzac ASMD Mast 1:700 in Frosted Ultra Detail
1 x x12 VF-4 1/700 in Frosted Ultra Detail (Yes, I got Macross/Robotech fighters in 1/700)
1 x 700_Ave_Quinjet [x5] [H] in Frosted Ultra Detail (And yes, these are Avengers Quinjets)

I'll try and throw together some closeups on the various planes I've gotten, because honestly, the sculptor make a huge difference. Some of them really know their stuff, and some make things closer to the blobs you fear. Oddly, sometimes the same guy makes both.

[NARSES2]

That is coming together nicely

[proditor]

Basic construction is complete, and I was going to rush to paint since today is amazing outside, but then I realized I forgot to putty the seams. D'oh!  So paint, maybe later tonight, but pictures way in the furuture.

In the interim, I got asked about detail pics on my shapeways aircraft, so I took a few and posted it here: http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,42324.0.html