F-16XL

Tophe · May 21, 2016, 10:02:17 PM

Despite the Captain's favour for a single fin, I repeat my love for the HiMat-way of 2 fins. Just remember the two possibilities remain. Some voters (of the Navy GB) would prefer one way and some others would prefer the other way. Nothing is simple, but even if you take the other way, I would have been happy that you made pictures trying the genius part (according to me...).

leptiprince · May 22, 2016, 04:49:27 AM

Wow I like your idea of plane 5 generation. For me I will F-16XL do a cross between F16 IN and double empenage the F22 and DSI....

DogfighterZen · May 22, 2016, 07:42:27 AM

Quote from: comrade harps on May 21, 2016, 08:05:09 PM
I like the Super Bug analogy.

Looks like i have a story then, right? I read it again today, a bit more sober this time...

And i think it's not a bad idea, although, re-thinking the whole thing, then the changes i'm planning are a bit too much, when compared to the Super Bug, which as we know, wasn't very modified and kept the basic layout of the Legacy Hornet.
That would mean the XL would probably get a DSI, AESA radar, new avionics and sensors and upgraded engine, but it probably wouldn't change the basic layout...

Quote from: Tophe on May 21, 2016, 10:02:17 PM
Despite the Captain's favour for a single fin, I repeat my love for the HiMat-way of 2 fins. Just remember the two possibilities remain. Some voters (of the Navy GB) would prefer one way and some others would prefer the other way. Nothing is simple, but even if you take the other way, I would have been happy that you made pictures trying the genius part (according to me...).

I'm still divided, Tophe... I've always preferred twin tails, but if i'm to follow a more plausible route, it would keep the single tail. If i go with the 5th gen XL, it would probably be too much of a redesign for an upgrade similar to what the Hornet went through... In real world, it would probably be too costly to implement such changes... I guess it would make it a totally new airframe that would have to be tested from scratch.

And i do have another issue to address, the fact that the XL was developed to be an attack fighter with secondary air to air capability to defend itself, not for air superiority.
That's why i've been considering the canards and twin tails, although i'm not sure if it would make a big difference in the jet's maneuverability, by what i've read so far, all delta winged aircraft loose much more energy in sustained subsonic maneuvering so, probably, although not being a slouch, it wouldn't be able to perform as well as the F-15 or normal F-16s in air to air combat.
It was one of the factors that made the USAF choose the F-15E in the Dual Role Fighter competition, along with the single engine and higher development and integration costs.
But going back to the Navy issue, the Tomcat was the air superiority fighter for the US Navy at the time, so this could be a plausible choice if the Hornet got cancelled, but it would be as F/A-16XL.

Quote from: leptiprince on May 22, 2016, 04:49:27 AM
Wow I like your idea of plane 5 generation. For me I will F-16XL do a cross between F16 IN and double empenage the F22 and DSI....

Thanks, Lepti!

I guess we both suffer from the same Viper syndrome...

I also have plans to use F-22 wings on a viper and will probably come out similar to yours, but that will probably be built in a somewhat distant future...

The Pelican tails look very nice on the Viper, i've seen one built like that here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4325367
The Viper has the most versatile design ever, IMHO, that is.

BTW, i'm not a gamer, so i've only recently found out about the P-996 Lazer, check it out. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4325367

FAR148 · May 22, 2016, 08:40:10 AM

What about a nozzle like this? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Sukhoi_Su-35S_07_RED_PAS_2013_07.jpg

Steven L

Jesse220 · May 22, 2016, 10:22:16 AM

What about swing wings?

DogfighterZen · May 22, 2016, 11:33:54 AM

Quote from: FAR148 on May 22, 2016, 08:40:10 AM
What about a nozzle like this? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Sukhoi_Su-35S_07_RED_PAS_2013_07.jpg

Steven L

Quote from: Jesse220 on May 22, 2016, 10:22:16 AM
What about swing wings?

Thanks for the suggestions, guys!

Well, regarding the nozzle, if i choose the stealth version, i'll use the Raptor's nozzle, 2d thrust vectoring and low observable to match the rest of the jet's LO upgrades, on the other hand, on a more convencional version, it'll sure be equipped with a GE Aven nozzle mixed with the Loan nozzle on the F-35...

Swing wings... on the XL!?!?

Would be much easier to build such a thing from a normal F-16 kit, wouldn't it?
The XL did have a higher landing speed than the normal Viper but i believe that canards would solve that issue for carrier suitability, much like the carrier-based Sukhois have them for the same reason... At least, that's what i remember from watching the Wings of Russia documentaries.

Anyway, i don't even know if i'm allowed to enter this in the GB, so i'll wait for the decisions till i get an answer.

NARSES2 · May 23, 2016, 03:21:35 AM

I had to have a good look at this thread and as far as I can see all of the "apparent" work has purely been taping various bits together to see what they would look like ? The only real work is a little bit done to the ejector seat .

On that basis then I'm happy for it to go into the In the Navy GB. However it might be better to lock this thread and start a new one in that GB's area. It would be just a little bit clearer then, especially from my point of view

Chris

Captain Canada · May 23, 2016, 07:46:00 AM

That first profile above looks like an F-104 to me. Weird but cool !

DogfighterZen · May 23, 2016, 11:42:18 AM

Quote from: NARSES2 on May 23, 2016, 03:21:35 AM
I had to have a good look at this thread and as far as I can see all of the "apparent" work has purely been taping various bits together to see what they would look like ? The only real work is a little bit done to the ejector seat .

On that basis then I'm happy for it to go into the In the Navy GB. However it might be better to lock this thread and start a new one in that GB's area. It would be just a little bit clearer then, especially from my point of view

Chris

Aye, aye, sir!

I've only glued 4 tiny bits of plastic on the seat, nothing else. I'll lock this thread and start the new in the right place.

DogfighterZen · June 04, 2016, 05:00:34 AM

Well, i'm reviving this as i'll be building it as a land-based bird after all...

I'd like to apologize to Narses2 for bothering him with the change but i really don't want to do it as a carrier based fighter.
So, this will be built, but i still have to choose what to do with it, but it will get going now as it's one that i've been wanting to build for a long time.

NARSES2 · June 04, 2016, 05:33:35 AM

Quote from: DogfighterZen on June 04, 2016, 05:00:34 AM
Well, i'm reviving this as i'll be building it as a land-based bird after all... I'd like to apologize to Narses2 for bothering him with the change but i really don't want to do it as a carrier based fighter.

No problem

DogfighterZen · June 04, 2016, 05:02:36 PM

Ok, cockpit has been taken care of. As some of you may know, the instrument panel on this kit is a flat bit of plastic so i dug up a Revel F-16A's panel and tried fitting it on the kit.
First cut out the molded flat panel and scrape the interior of the cover to a thinner thickness to bring it more to scale.

Then after the instrument panel is trimmed down, paint and assemble the setup...

Time to see if it really fits and...

Success!!!

Now, i know that with the dark tinted canopy, almost nothing will be seen...

It's just lacking the HUD, Nato black on the top of the cockpit and the fuselage halves can be closed up.

DogfighterZen · June 06, 2016, 05:41:24 PM

Right, so today i managed to do stuff...
Intake got treated with putty to simulate half of the air duct, enough to look reasonable without spending too much time on it.
Last time i tried this, i used too much putty at once and it melted the plastic so this time, only small amounts on each application, after the prior was dry, and everything worked great, no damage.

As you can see, i added the ant-ice bar and sanded the putty down, doesn't have to be perfect, just enough, and that enough for me for now, let's see after it's really assembled.

Looks like the sides will need some attention when it's glued...

Also, the nozzle got some love too...

Original assembly...

Plastic sheet cylinder cut to size to simulate the burner chamber and give it some depth and after that the nozzle got the plastic strips on the inside...
To adapt this on the kit was simple, just had to clean out the original attachment point on the aft fuselage and it goes in perfectly.

Also glued the cockpit tub in place in the top fuselage so i'll probably close the fuselage halves soon.

Jesse220 · June 07, 2016, 02:21:04 PM

Can we get a swing wing F-16 please?

DogfighterZen · June 10, 2016, 05:24:15 PM

Quote from: Jesse220 on June 07, 2016, 02:21:04 PM
Can we get a swing wing F-16 please?

Sorry not this one...

I wanna have a normal XL before i build a modified version so, i've decided to go with a normal build, just scheme and markings whif.
The nozzle was painted, gloss coated and masked, the intake was painted and glued up, fuselages closed up and this how it sits at the moment...

Just needs minor filling and sanding on a few seams but nothing much. I cut off the pitot before it broke off and i'll decided later if i'll use the original or a better part from another kit. Canopy should come on next as the the masking is pretty easy on this one, and it's on to the paint shop.