Identification Help

[Army of One]

Two of them........or one a/c with two fuselage missing the middle section.......? I bet it's something to do with a member of Tophe's ancestry........

[Weaver]

Two of them........or one a/c with two fuselage missing the middle section.......? I bet it's something to do with a member of Tophe's ancestry........

Can't be one of Tophe's though: it's got guns on it...

[Weaver]

Assuming they are guns in a turret how do they elevate ? I Can't see any slots for them to move in ?

There's a suggestion of an oval plate around the barrels, so maybe it has some kind of internal 'mantlet' deisgned to stop airflow into the turret.

I think a bigger question is how are the guns aimed? The turret appears to be entirely opaque, so it's either remotely operated or open-topped....

[Burncycle]

Could it be a sea plane of some type?

Instead of guns, maybe antenna and radar dome?

Or entirely fictional design made to look like a historical photograph? We see some of those here now and then

[Weaver]

Assuming they are guns in a turret how do they elevate ? I Can't see any slots for them to move in ?

There's a suggestion of an oval plate around the barrels, so maybe it has some kind of internal 'mantlet' deisgned to stop airflow into the turret.

I think a bigger question is how are the guns aimed? The turret appears to be entirely opaque, so it's either remotely operated or open-topped....

Maybe they're not elevated at all and arn't aimed from within the turret. Maybe it's a form of bomber destroyer: the guns' elevation is fixed, but the pilot can swing them forward for a stern attack or sideways for a beam attack, the latter being like a sort of 'sideways schragermusic'...?

[NARSES2]

Maybe they're not elevated at all and arn't aimed from within the turret. Maybe it's a form of bomber destroyer: the guns' elevation is fixed, but the pilot can swing them forward for a stern attack or sideways for a beam attack, the latter being like a sort of 'sideways schragermusic'...?

That's my thinking, see my comments on Italian and French defence against the bomber theories.

The more I look at it, and also my few books on Italian designs (plus my stash of Planet kits  ) the front end looks very Piaggio or Cansa in shape. Doesn't look French 1930's at all, far to elegant, and that's not a joke. Could see the turret becoming more dome like if it had gone into production though.

Looking at my few Italian books has thrown up a couple of great twin boom designs (one is asymmetric) which I'd love to build.....come on Mr Planet  

[Weaver]

Maybe they're not elevated at all and arn't aimed from within the turret. Maybe it's a form of bomber destroyer: the guns' elevation is fixed, but the pilot can swing them forward for a stern attack or sideways for a beam attack, the latter being like a sort of 'sideways schragermusic'...?

That's my thinking, see my comments on Italian and French defence against the bomber theories.

The more I look at it, and also my few books on Italian designs (plus my stash of Planet kits  ) the front end looks very Piaggio or Cansa in shape. Doesn't look French 1930's at all, far to elegant, and that's not a joke. Could see the turret becoming more dome like if it had gone into production though.

Looking at my few Italian books has thrown up a couple of great twin boom designs (one is asymmetric) which I'd love to build.....come on Mr Planet  

Not entirely fair, the Potez 65/650 series are similarly elegant in shape and line and have a superficially similar cockpit glazing, but when you look at them in detail there are lots of differences.

One thing that mitigates against it being Italian is that they seem to have gone over to mostly low-wing designs earlier than the French, so there are fewer suitable platforms for the mystery ship to be based on (assuming it's based on anything, of course).

[Librarian]

There was a French company called Dyle Et Bacalan ( spelling?)....looks like something they might have produced.

[kitnut617]

Just a thought: could it be an optical illusion that the twin tail unit and skeletal fuselage in the middle of the picture are actually connected to the turreted front end? Might it be that, since this is an aircraft dump of some kind, the twin tail unit is the remians of a different aircraft and is actually some way behind the turreted front end, only lining up by coincidence for this photograph?

Evidence:

1. The cut-off between skinned and skeletal on the fuselage seems awfully neat for random damage and/or rot.

2. What would be the logic in deliberately stripping the covering from the rear half of a dumped aircraft anyhow?

3. The bottom of the skeletal portion doesn't quite line up with the skinned portion at the 'join'.

Not claiming this as conclusive, but it's worth thinking about.

Also, I'm not convinced by the Farman F.222 explanation any more: the F.222 had a proportionally much longer wing chord than that seen in the pic.

It looks to me like the skinning under the wing root is actually not fastened to the fuselage frame, it appears to be bending away from the side. It could be where the aircraft was abandoned because the Germans were advancing too quickly. The Germans themselves could have moved the unfinished frame to where they are in the photo.  But if you line up the lattice work in the wing root airfoil, it does seem to be in line with the fins.

[Tophe]

Two of them........or one a/c with two fuselage missing the middle section.......? I bet it's something to do with a member of Tophe's ancestry........

Can't be one of Tophe's though: it's got guns on it...

Good conclusion, thanks but I don't know what this is at all, sorry... maybe a flying tank like the Antonov KT?

[NARSES2]

Not entirely fair, the Potez 65/650 series are similarly elegant in shape and line and have a superficially similar cockpit glazing, but when you look at them in detail there are lots of differences.

One thing that mitigates against it being Italian is that they seem to have gone over to mostly low-wing designs earlier than the French, so there are fewer suitable platforms for the mystery ship to be based on (assuming it's based on anything, of course).

True on both accounts, perhaps I was a little unfair to our French cousins. They were looking at some quite elegant designs by the late 30's.

[Old Wombat]

I'm not convinced those are either guns or a turret, they don't look right. Not sure it's even circular.

[Amphion]

What's the origin of the Picture. Where on the internet was it found, or was it found IRL? That would be my first question.

[loupgarou]

I am quite sure the same photo has been debated before, I think here as I haven't visited Secret Projects for a long time.
I have never seen anything similar in italian aircraft.
I'd say french, maybe the turret is a dummy to test feasibility.

[kitnut617]

I am quite sure the same photo has been debated before,

I've had the same feeling too, I've seen it somewhere before ---- just can't place where I've seen it -----