RAF Heavy Day Bomber colours

[Dizzyfugu]

The near one seems to be in RAF Desert camo but toned down a tad, plus the Deep Sky undersides. It has old style USAAC roundels with the red dot in the centre, but it has an RAF fin flash with USAAC codes above.

That front B-17 really is in an RAF Type A camo scheme too. Perhaps it was destined for the RAF and was photo'd while acceptance testing in the US before delivery?

I'd be careful with interpretations. This is obviously a scanned, print photograph, print resolution is crappy and the colors are dubious, so do not take for granted what you perceive.
Anyway, Dark Earth can look pretty light (bleaching, light conditions, plus the photo-related issues), and from my experience my bet is still on a standard DG/DE RAF scheme from above.

BTW, Italeri did an OOB kit of an RAF Fortress:




...and Flightdecs from Canada does a decal sheet that confirms the DG/DE assumption:

[NARSES2]

Right in the article Paul says that in modern colour terms Deep Sky is close to BS 381C No 104 and that there is no really close FS equivalent it falling between FS35052 and 35056. The profile is linked to Vallejo (SAM have a tie in) AV71.090 Blue Angels Blue. Looks very like Lee's Spitfire 

So I'd go for the Tempest V with Typhoons staying longer in the ground attach role in 2TAF.  Tempests were already deployed by ADGB in 1944-45, so just add more. How about medium Sea Grey Uppers plus PRU undersides as per Spitfire VIIs and high-flying IXs?

Oh yes, or maybe Tempest II's with ID bands to distinguish from 190's ? This may get built

By 1944, the upper colors would also have changed from Dark Green/Dark Earth to Dark Green/Ocean Grey, I'd assume?

Fascinating photo Dizzy  As for the upper colours changing, I hadn't even thought about that. I'd assumed as the night bombers stayed the same then the day bombers would follow. However given the altitude maybe grey/green or indeed overall upper surface grey would be better. So a RAF B.17 in a scheme close to the high altitude fighter one but with deep sky lower surfaces ?

[dogsbody]

From (Monografie Lotnicze No.90) Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress, Cz.1






Chris

[PR19_Kit]

The near one seems to be in RAF Desert camo but toned down a tad, plus the Deep Sky undersides. It has old style USAAC roundels with the red dot in the centre, but it has an RAF fin flash with USAAC codes above.

Note I said 'seems..........

The OP pic is of a B-17E whereas the Italeri model and the colour side view are of a C model. Wiki says the RAF had 20 Cs, called Fortress Is, and later 19 Fs, called Fortress IIs and 45 Es, called Fortress IIAs. The last two seem to be back to front in naming and model no. but WTH. Naturally it says nothing about colour schemes. 

[NARSES2]

The same Paul Lucas article that kicked this off says that the RAF Fortress I's were sent to the Mediterranean after their problems over Norway and were used to bomb Bengazi etc. Something else I didn't know. No idea if they were repainted locally, but it would look good.

[KJ_Lesnick]

Dizzyfugu,

http://i39.tinypic.com/1z3ctnr.jpg

This looks positively beautiful, it looks like a small bit of grey could have been used between the brown/green and blue areas but otherwise it really looks like from above it would blend in with the terrain (provided there isn't clouds everywhere), and from below it would mix in with the sky very well

The temperate sea-scheme is for maritime patrol operations right?

[Dizzyfugu]

Yes. Even though the EDSG/DSG/PRU Blue combo is really odd - first time I ever see this, 

[jcf]

The B-17 with the odd scheme is the following according to Joe Baugher's serials site:

B-17E 41-9141 delivered to 301st BG, Geiger May 1, 1942; transferred to Alamogordo Jun 18, 1942; transferred to Westover Jul 2, 1942; transferred to Walla Walla Aug 12, 1942; transferred to Boise Oct 26, 1942, transferred to Lockburn Apr 4, 1943; transferred to Las Vegas Oct 17, 1943; RFC at Albuquerque, Jul 5, 1945.

So it never left the Continental US, which makes the scheme even more mysterious.

Britmodeller thread on the subject:
http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235003275-strange-b-17e-camo-scheme/&

[zenrat]

I had a quick look at that Britmodeller thread.  It must be so frustrating being really keen to build one but being scared to do so in case someone else could prove you were "wrong" and thus accuse you of building a Whiff.

[PR19_Kit]

Perhaps the aircraft was used to train RAF Fortress crews in the US? They must have been trained on such a 'non-standard' aircraft somewhere and the expertise was over there.

[zenrat]

I'm assuming they flew them from the US to the UK.  Who did that job?  Could it have been the operational RAF crews after having been trained in the US?

<edit>
FLEW dammit not felt.
F#####g auto correct.

[NARSES2]

As an after thought I got to thinking about what the RAF would have used as an escort fighter, circa 1944/45, if they couldn't get enough Mustangs and Thunderbolts.

MB.5's?

Given the need for indigenous escort fighters & more funding the MB.5 may have been in production by mid-1944, instead of in the prototype stage.

I'm actually doing this at the moment  Although she will be an escort for USAAF bombers circa late 45/46. The reason's why she will be escorting the USAAF will be exclaimed in due course 

[jcf]

Perhaps the aircraft was used to train RAF Fortress crews in the US? They must have been trained on such a 'non-standard' aircraft somewhere and the expertise was over there.

The aircraft history shows transfer to Las Vegas Oct 17, 1943 and that base was this, from Wikipedia:
Army Air Forces Training Command
Western Flight Training Command
Las Vegas AAF, Las Vegas
AAC Gunnery School, 1941
AAF West Coast Training Center
70th Army Air Force Base Unit
Now: Nellis Air Force Base

"Las Vegas Army Airfield
Las Vegas Army Airfield was both activated and began flying training on 20 December 1941. Gunnery training began in January 1942,
with guntruck platforms being used in January and February. Many pieces of the destroyed aerial drone targets litter the hillside north
of the gunnery range, and can be seen in town when the sun reflects off of them.

The first B-17 Flying Fortresses arrived in 1942 and allowed training of 600 gunnery students and 215 co-pilots from the field every
five weeks at the height of the war. More than 45,000 B-17 gunners were trained; the USAAF training movie The Rear Gunner was
filmed at the airfield in 1943. The 82d Flying Training Wing (Flexible Gunnery) was activated at the base as one of ten Army Air
Forces Flying Training Command wings on 23 August 1943.By 1944, gunnery students utilised B-17, B-24 Liberator and B-40
Flying Fortress gunship aircraft (for example by firing at aircraft-towed targets)."

[NARSES2]

Sometimes a single number starts to give you some idea of the scale of the US's commitment to WWII.

45,000 B.17 gunners  . Amazing 

[kitnut617]

This is my guess, the dates Jon has shown us are in 1942.  The colour scheme would suggest RAF Mediterrainian. Maybe the crews were being trained to recognise RAF aircraft which would be flying along side them ----- Opertion Torch was at the end of 1942