avatar_seadude

What would it take to make real mechs?

Started by seadude, November 02, 2016, 11:38:08 AM

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Weaver

Wheels, tracks and hover skirts all work superbly, both technically and tactically, in the right environment, and 'the right environment' covers most of the credible battlefields on the face of the planet. Furthermore, radical new military technology doesn't just need to be possible, it needs to present (or at least claim) a significant advantage or improvement over existing technology. I cannot for the life of me see any situation in which a 30ft tall walking tank can do any military task better and/or more cost-efficently than alternative, more conventional technology.

It would be perfectly technically possible for your house to be replaced by a 20ft wide, 8-story tower: there are good reasons why we don't do that.
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

zenrat

I'm trying to picture The Empire Strikes Back with tanks instead of AT-ATs and it just isn't working.
Fred

- Can't be bothered to do the proper research and get it right.

Another ill conceived, lazily thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of half arsed what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

zenrat industries:  We're everywhere...for your convenience..

Old Wombat

Try tripping a tank up by wrapping string around its tracks. ;)
Has a life outside of What-If & wishes it would stop interfering!

"The purpose of all War is Peace" - St. Augustine

veritas ad mortus veritas est

Weaver

Quote from: zenrat on November 06, 2016, 02:19:42 AM
I'm trying to picture The Empire Strikes Back with tanks instead of AT-ATs and it just isn't working.

You'd have to rewrite the scene with different tactics to suite the technology, but that's kinda the point. That scene in Empire was basically WWI with Hannibal's elephants instead of Mk.I tanks, not WW27 as fought by a space-faring civilisation.
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

zenrat

If you ask me it's all HG Wells fault.
Or was there earlier examples of walking war machines we could blame?

Fred

- Can't be bothered to do the proper research and get it right.

Another ill conceived, lazily thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of half arsed what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

zenrat industries:  We're everywhere...for your convenience..

Weaver

Quote from: zenrat on November 06, 2016, 11:12:55 PM
If you ask me it's all HG Wells fault.
Or was there earlier examples of walking war machines we could blame?

Well there's a steam-powered walking machine in a Jules Verne novel that precedes WotW by quite some time:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Steam_House
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

jcf

Quote from: Weaver on November 06, 2016, 06:39:43 AM
Quote from: zenrat on November 06, 2016, 02:19:42 AM
I'm trying to picture The Empire Strikes Back with tanks instead of AT-ATs and it just isn't working.

You'd have to rewrite the scene with different tactics to suite the technology, but that's kinda the point. That scene in Empire was basically WWI with Hannibal's elephants instead of Mk.I tanks, not WW27 as fought by a space-faring civilisation.

How could it be WW XXVII when the story takes place A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away ...;)

zenrat

Quote from: joncarrfarrelly on November 07, 2016, 11:11:19 AM
Quote from: Weaver on November 06, 2016, 06:39:43 AM
Quote from: zenrat on November 06, 2016, 02:19:42 AM
I'm trying to picture The Empire Strikes Back with tanks instead of AT-ATs and it just isn't working.

You'd have to rewrite the scene with different tactics to suite the technology, but that's kinda the point. That scene in Empire was basically WWI with Hannibal's elephants instead of Mk.I tanks, not WW27 as fought by a space-faring civilisation.

How could it be WW XXVII when the story takes place A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away ...;)

Hence no tracks - as it was before WWI the tank hadn't been invented yet... ;D
Fred

- Can't be bothered to do the proper research and get it right.

Another ill conceived, lazily thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of half arsed what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

zenrat industries:  We're everywhere...for your convenience..

Weaver

Quote from: joncarrfarrelly on November 07, 2016, 11:11:19 AM
Quote from: Weaver on November 06, 2016, 06:39:43 AM
Quote from: zenrat on November 06, 2016, 02:19:42 AM
I'm trying to picture The Empire Strikes Back with tanks instead of AT-ATs and it just isn't working.

You'd have to rewrite the scene with different tactics to suite the technology, but that's kinda the point. That scene in Empire was basically WWI with Hannibal's elephants instead of Mk.I tanks, not WW27 as fought by a space-faring civilisation.

How could it be WW XXVII when the story takes place A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away ...;)

Didn't say which World's War #27 did I? ;-)
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

Old Wombat

Ah, but you see, mate, tracked armoured fighting vehicles weren't invented anywhere until January 1916, in England, on Earth.
Has a life outside of What-If & wishes it would stop interfering!

"The purpose of all War is Peace" - St. Augustine

veritas ad mortus veritas est

zenrat

Quote from: Old Wombat on November 08, 2016, 03:59:36 AM
Ah, but you see, mate, tracked armoured fighting vehicles weren't invented anywhere until January 1916, in England, on Earth.

Correctamundo  :thumbsup:
Fred

- Can't be bothered to do the proper research and get it right.

Another ill conceived, lazily thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of half arsed what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

zenrat industries:  We're everywhere...for your convenience..

jcf

#26
Quote from: zenrat on November 09, 2016, 02:38:25 AM
Quote from: Old Wombat on November 08, 2016, 03:59:36 AM
Ah, but you see, mate, tracked armoured fighting vehicles weren't invented anywhere until January 1916, in England, on Earth.

Correctamundo  :thumbsup:

Non-Brit concepts predate 1916 e.g. Austrian Burstyn of 1911, as does Little Willie, 1915.

http://landships.info/landships/tank_articles.html



zenrat

Quote from: joncarrfarrelly on November 09, 2016, 07:36:52 PM
Quote from: zenrat on November 09, 2016, 02:38:25 AM
Quote from: Old Wombat on November 08, 2016, 03:59:36 AM
Ah, but you see, mate, tracked armoured fighting vehicles weren't invented anywhere until January 1916, in England, on Earth.

Correctamundo  :thumbsup:

Non-Brit concepts predate 1916 e.g. Austrian Burstyn of 1911, as does Little Willie, 1915.

http://landships.info/landships/tank_articles.html




Those of us raised in the former seat of empire or one of it's colonies do rather tend to forget such detail.
Although what came first and when depends, I think, on which leg of the Trousers of Time your path leads down (or up).
It's probably quantum.   ;D

Crud, I miss Terry Pratchett.
Fred

- Can't be bothered to do the proper research and get it right.

Another ill conceived, lazily thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of half arsed what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

zenrat industries:  We're everywhere...for your convenience..

jcf

Quote from: zenrat on November 10, 2016, 10:39:22 PM
Quote from: joncarrfarrelly on November 09, 2016, 07:36:52 PM
Quote from: zenrat on November 09, 2016, 02:38:25 AM
Quote from: Old Wombat on November 08, 2016, 03:59:36 AM
Ah, but you see, mate, tracked armoured fighting vehicles weren't invented anywhere until January 1916, in England, on Earth.

Correctamundo  :thumbsup:

Non-Brit concepts predate 1916 e.g. Austrian Burstyn of 1911, as does Little Willie, 1915.

http://landships.info/landships/tank_articles.html




Those of us raised in the former seat of empire or one of it's colonies do rather tend to forget such detail.
Although what came first and when depends, I think, on which leg of the Trousers of Time your path leads down (or up).
It's probably quantum.   ;D

Crud, I miss Terry Pratchett.

Welp, that would include me being originally from B.C. and sech.  ;)

NARSES2

Quote from: zenrat on November 10, 2016, 10:39:22 PM

Crud, I miss Terry Pratchett.

I echo that sentiment.  :-\ I'm going to start re-reading the Discworld series from the beginning again in the New ear as there's next to nothing on telly
Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.