Soviet GB Suggested Rules

[NARSES2]

Re my use of the word Soviet.

As Jon' suggests I was using it in the limited sense of the USSR and its associated/allied states rather than in it's broader sense as there were way to many Soviets established, albeit briefly in most cases, in the early part of the 20th Century.

So what I had intended was anything that either originated in or was used by the Soviet Union and its associated/allied states. Now in Wif World this bloc of associated/allied states may well contain more countries than in the real world. I think the key is that whatever you build must have a strong link to the Soviet Union or its  associated/allied states either by usage or manufacture ? I think it's important to maintain the spirit but heck if the USSR could clone a B.29 then they could have cloned a lot of other things. Also if WWII had continued then who knows what would have been sent under Lend-Lease ?

Strangely my own extended WWII scenario doesn't fit into this GB as I have the Soviet Union collapsing in 1943 to be replaced by a hastily formed Russian Republic - The Rodina.

[NARSES2]

One of the reasons I got this topic posted rather early was because I thought it might take a while to sort out what "we" meant by the term Soviet ? 

[Weaver]

Re my use of the word Soviet.

As Jon' suggests I was using it in the limited sense of the USSR and its associated/allied states rather than in it's broader sense as there were way to many Soviets established, albeit briefly in most cases, in the early part of the 20th Century.

So what I had intended was anything that either originated in or was used by the Soviet Union and its associated/allied states. Now in Wif World this bloc of associated/allied states may well contain more countries than in the real world. I think the key is that whatever you build must have a strong link to the Soviet Union or its  associated/allied states either by usage or manufacture ? I think it's important to maintain the spirit but heck if the USSR could clone a B.29 then they could have cloned a lot of other things. Also if WWII had continued then who knows what would have been sent under Lend-Lease ?

Strangely my own extended WWII scenario doesn't fit into this GB as I have the Soviet Union collapsing in 1943 to be replaced by a hastily formed Russian Republic - The Rodina.

Okay, so here's a hypothetical. Let's say we have the common alternative timeline in which the UK becomes Communist at some point in the late 1940s or early 1950s. If the Soviets didn't dismantle the much smaller Czech and Polish aircraft industries, but instead put them to work doing useful stuff, it's highly unlikely that they'd dismantle the British one, so that means you could credibly have British designs flying for a British Air Force (it certainly wouldn't be 'Royal') in defence of a People's Republic of Great Britain that was a member of the Warsaw Pact.

So, would a Hunter or Lightning with 'BAF' stencilling and red stars instead of red dots in the middle of it's blue and white roundels be admissable to this GB? I suspect this is the qualm some people have about 'made up Soviet allies' allowing you to build anything you want.

[zenrat]

I completely disagree with the way this is going as I said earlier.  I would limit it to the armed forces of the USSR plus it's police, security forces, airlines, public transport, agricultural machinery etc.  In other words only "Russian" stuff.
However, it seems that as I have limited comrades marching with me.  I will not get my way.  So be it.
I could have offered to moderate and thus had more input but being bone idle I didn't and will have to be happy sitting here muttering to myself about how wrong you all are.


Whatever.  Bring it on.  My sheets of red star decals are all ready to go and my head is throbbing with ideas.  Can't wait to get stuck in.

[Tophe]

for my birthday December 27th I may have a (Soviet-built) KhAI-3 model, resin 1/72, but I am almost sure I will build it not as a plane of the Soviet Union (or other socialist country) but as a "dream of the world". Does the "Soviet designer" qualify it for this GB? or should I post it in the general Aircraft section?

Hi Tophe, can I ask for a bit more info on this one please? If it has a Soviet (USSR citizen?) designer, then where is it being built and who is it being operated by?

Hello,
Models of mine are not machines but mechanical birds, dreams. Here the source will be a soviet airplane, that is all. Is this enough for here? I may post elsewhere, no problem.

[NARSES2]

Re my use of the word Soviet.

As Jon' suggests I was using it in the limited sense of the USSR and its associated/allied states rather than in it's broader sense as there were way to many Soviets established, albeit briefly in most cases, in the early part of the 20th Century.

So what I had intended was anything that either originated in or was used by the Soviet Union and its associated/allied states. Now in Wif World this bloc of associated/allied states may well contain more countries than in the real world. I think the key is that whatever you build must have a strong link to the Soviet Union or its  associated/allied states either by usage or manufacture ? I think it's important to maintain the spirit but heck if the USSR could clone a B.29 then they could have cloned a lot of other things. Also if WWII had continued then who knows what would have been sent under Lend-Lease ?

Strangely my own extended WWII scenario doesn't fit into this GB as I have the Soviet Union collapsing in 1943 to be replaced by a hastily formed Russian Republic - The Rodina.

Okay, so here's a hypothetical. Let's say we have the common alternative timeline in which the UK becomes Communist at some point in the late 1940s or early 1950s. If the Soviets didn't dismantle the much smaller Czech and Polish aircraft industries, but instead put them to work doing useful stuff, it's highly unlikely that they'd dismantle the British one, so that means you could credibly have British designs flying for a British Air Force (it certainly wouldn't be 'Royal') in defence of a People's Republic of Great Britain that was a member of the Warsaw Pact.

So, would a Hunter or Lightning with 'BAF' stencilling and red stars instead of red dots in the middle of it's blue and white roundels be admissable to this GB? I suspect this is the qualm some people have about 'made up Soviet allies' allowing you to build anything you want.

O.K.

As far as I personally am concerned then a Peoples Republic of Great Britain is fine in so far as this GB is concerned. If that had been the case then it is quite likely that the U.K.'s aircraft industry would have continued but under "Soviet" control/influence. So yes, Hunters with Red Stars are a possibility, although perhaps "improved" versions of "Soviet" designs are more likely ?

[NARSES2]

I completely disagree with the way this is going as I said earlier.  I would limit it to the armed forces of the USSR plus it's police, security forces, airlines, public transport, agricultural machinery etc.  In other words only "Russian" stuff.
However, it seems that as I have limited comrades marching with me.  I will not get my way.  So be it.
I could have offered to moderate and thus had more input but being bone idle I didn't and will have to be happy sitting here muttering to myself about how wrong you all are.


Whatever.  Bring it on.  My sheets of red star decals are all ready to go and my head is throbbing with ideas.  Can't wait to get stuck in.

Can I just outline my approach to G.B.'s in general.

I like them to be very broad in scope as that encourages greater participation and that, in my view, is the whole reason for having G.B.'s. In the past we had some G.B.'s with very tight parametres and participation was limited. Indeed we had one G.B. where I think I was the only person who built some models  Although in fairness to the membership I think my scenario was quite difficult to grasp and appeared to be stuck in a time frame that few build in.

As far as the scope goes if you look at some previous G.B.'s you will find a few builds in them that leave you scratching your head as to how they fit in, but that is what tends to happen in the latter weeks of a G.B. Individuals interpretation varies so much and I have no problem with that.

As far as this G.B. goes then I am more than happy to hold a poll as to what its parametres should be, providing we can agree on a short, clear question, and that might not be easy in it'self.

As said I like to try and get as broad a section of the membership taking part in the G.B.'s as possible and that I feel needs broad parametres.

Agreeing on what the G.B.'s are and then getting them organised can be a time consuming affair, indeed I'm already working through my notes for the Poll for the 2017/18 season, and that is part of the reason why we only have 3 plus the one week build a year. It can also be a problem getting moderators, we only just got enough for the 2016/17 season and that was with me moderating one of them.

I'm not moaning, although it probably sounds like it, but just explaining that I like to try and be as inclusive as possible. We are a very broad, and normally quite happy "church" and I like to try and keep it that way.

Chris

[TheChronicOne]

When you put it that way, I can't help but agree.  I retract my former misgivings.    I'm a fan of "the more the merrier" and want to see a ton of builds.    What the hell was I thinking?!

[zenrat]

I'm not moaning.  Just grumbling a bit.   
Ignore me.  I'll get over it.
I made my suggestion but then unfortunately real life interrupted things and I was unable to contribute to the discussions for 3 or 4 days and by then it was too late.
No biggie.  Experience has taught me I rarely get things my own way and generally when I do it turns out it probably wasn't such a good idea anyway.

Just remember, Big Red got the good stuff.  The minion states got the poverty pack versions, the old stock and the leftovers. 

[NARSES2]

I'm not moaning.  Just grumbling a bit.   

I'm good at that 

Just remember, Big Red got the good stuff.  The minion states got the poverty pack versions, the old stock and the leftovers. 

Oh very much so, and mine will have 6 Red Stars at least 

[TheChronicOne]

"Poverty pack." (TM)   lmao.       hahahah

[Vorcha]

I am currently in the process of reviving my 100% scratchbuild tank project I had to abandon in april. (Socialist Hungarian T-55 based indigenous tank - of course the steel also comes from the USSR...)
http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,41975.0.html
I have all the parts printed out and was already beginning to glue the new paper pieces to the cardboard, when I saw this GB... Of course I would be happy to take part...
...Do I have to wait a whole month till I start or is the process of "creating" the scratchbuilt parts exempt from the "no-glue-rule"?

[NARSES2]

...Do I have to wait a whole month till I start or is the process of "creating" the scratchbuilt parts exempt from the "no-glue-rule"?

Interesting question, and a first for the site I think ?

I'll bow to the Moderators on this one 

[JasonW]

I am currently in the process of reviving my 100% scratchbuild tank project I had to abandon in april. (Socialist Hungarian T-55 based indigenous tank - of course the steel also comes from the USSR...)
http://www.whatifmodellers.com/index.php/topic,41975.0.html
I have all the parts printed out and was already beginning to glue the new paper pieces to the cardboard, when I saw this GB... Of course I would be happy to take part...
...Do I have to wait a whole month till I start or is the process of "creating" the scratchbuilt parts exempt from the "no-glue-rule"?

I am discussing with my fellow moderator and we will have an answer for you shortly.

[Weaver]

Just remember, Big Red got the good stuff.  The minion states got the poverty pack versions, the old stock and the leftovers. 

Yes, but the stuff the minions were allowed to design for themselves was often good stuff too. There's nothing 'second-rate' about an L-29 Delfin, L-39 Albatross, SOKO Galeb or Super Galeb or the Orao. I really don't think that if the UK joined the Warsaw Pact voluntarily, instead of being overrun and conquered, the USSR would insist on dismantling the likes of English Electric and Hawker. They might 'plunder' UK industry for any information and expertise that would help their own, and there might be a 'brain-drain' as unenthusiastic British engineers found their way to the USA/Canada/Australia, but I seriously doubt they'd just shut it all down. In real life, there was constant disagreement and negotiation and a limited amout of 'going their own way' in the Warsaw pact, notwithstanding the huge power imbalance between Russia and everyone else.