Pellsons Perceivings

[NARSES2]

It works exceedingly well!  A well reasoned and credible account.

Indeed it is 

[Pellson]

Having mulled a bit on the wing configuration of the F-84F Mod, I think I've decided on extending the chord and adding a dogtooth. In particular in combination with the more powerful engine, it seems as if it should give bigger benefits than just fences.

I still haven't found conclusive facts on the wing root guns and the slats, though, and in particular those slats are interesting. If they were left out - why?

[Pellson]

Right.

Having penetrated the subjects of the two missing guns in the wing roots as well as the being or not of the leading edge slats, as detailed in >THIS< thread, I've come to the conclusion that some smallish adjustments to the backstory would be appropriate. I also took the opportunity to correct some other small irregularities while at it. Hence, version 1.01 below:

The F-84F Thunderstreak in continued NATO service

The F-84F Thunderstreak was widely used throughout NATO, and almost half of the 2711 units built were transferred to Europe for service within the allied air forces there. France was the first country to receive Thunderstreaks in 1955, but within a few years, also the air forces of Belgium, the Netherlands, Italy, West Germany, Greece and Turkey flew these sturdy fighterbombers.
Aeronautical evolution went fast at that time, and starting from 1961, most of the European F-84F's were being replaced with the new and more than twice as fast F-104G Starfighter. While the F-84F's had had their limitations, in particular regarding high-speed operations at low altitude and general high-altitude performance, the F-104G was a beast, and in particular in Germany, the Luftwaffe experienced substantial losses, culminating with 44 aircraft lost during 1964-1965. To solve this, in 1966, the Luftwaffe temporarily halted all low-level Starfighter operations, basically taking them off all air to ground duties, restricting them to medium and high-altitude interception duties. To fill the gap, the venerable F-84F was brought out of storage.

Not knowing for how long they would have to rely on the Thunderstreak, the Germans took the opportunity to try to remedy some of the worst vices of the aircraft. The German company Messerschmitt-Bolkow-Blohm was lended an airframe for rebuild and trials, and within seven months, the prototype was flying. The changes were actually rather substantial but visually mostly hard to detect from a distance. The original American J65 engines were replaced with near sisters in the form of British AS Sapphires giving about 20% more thrust. While this didn't improve the top speed, it significantly improved climbing and maneuvering and guaranteed a take-off roll with full load shorter than 2000 m under normal European circumstances, a significant improvement in its own. Adding a chord extension to the outer wing, also providing a vortex inducing dogtooth to the leading edge, helped with the above, but also improved low-level, high-speed performance, and as a bonus, significantly improved stall characteristics, making the aircraft much easier to fly safely close to its limits. The four 0,5 cal guns in the nose were replaced with two 20 mm Hispanos, improving efficacy against armoured targets while the guns in the wing roots were deleted altogether, saving some weight. Improved navigation and communication systems were integrated together with a laser ranger and marked target seeker (LRMTS), located behind transparent sections in the intake splitter wall, replacing the old gunranging radar.
Altogether, this produced a surprisingly effective strike and close air support aircraft, and during two years from 1967, more than 250 German Thunderstreaks were taken in hand for conversion and redelivered to the Bundeswehr, adding a third squadron to five fighterbomber wings (Jagdbombergeschwadern, or JaboG in German terminology), and fully equipping all three sqns of JaboG 35. Closely following the outcome of this exercise, the Dutch Air Force (Koninklijke Luchmacht), the Belgian Forces Aeriennes Belge and the Italian Aeronautica Militare followed suit, each upgrading their remaining Thunderstreak fleets along similar lines.

However, already in 1968, improved training, both of pilots and ground crew, had significantly impacted the flight safety record of the Starfighters throughout Europe, and the much higher attack speed of the F-104 was seen as imperative in dealing with Soviet air defence systems, in particular in the nuclear penetration role. Accordingly, Starfighters were reintroduced to strike duties and Thunderstreak operations were again wound down and many airframes stored. All four air forces however kept some numbers flying, partly as they were better suited for close air support than the lightning-fast Starfighters, but also to keep older pilots rotating out of Starfighter assignments active on a less demanding but still useful asset. They were also used to maintain offensive air trim in reservist pilots. While only about a third of the upgraded airframes were in active use at any given time, the aircraft were rotated between storage and active duty, evening out wear and tear.
In Germany, JaboG 35 was renumbered JaboG 38 in 1975, concentrating the Luftwaffe Thunderstreaks to one wing with four squadrons. Maintaining the CAS role together with the LeKG's (light fighterbomber wings) operating Fiat G.91R's, the wing was kept active until 1983 when it finally phased out its old F-84F's and reverted to training Tornado crews as an operational conversion unit. At this time, some of the F-84F's had been repainted in the new all green wraparound Norm 83 scheme.

In 1969, Belgium and the Netherlands formed a joint wing at Weelde Air Base, just on the Belgian side of the border. Following a somewhat slow start while the two countries moved airframes and operations from squadrons transferring to Mirages and NF-5's, respectively, they in time operated two squadrons each, the Belgian 6th and 12th sqns and the Dutch 704th and 705th sqns. As in Germany, this wing kept only a small active cadre, mainly filling its ranks with reservists. The Belgian aircraft from the start flew in US SEA camouflage, and the Dutch in their old dark grey/green over PRU blue scheme, but already in 1974 reverted to the standard NATO grey/green as applied to NF-5A's. Pilots from both countries regularly flew each other's mounts as the aircraft were kept and maintained on a fully shared basis. Both countries ceased operations and the wing disbanded in 1981.

The Italians flew their final F-84F's on the regular roster with no 50 sqn at Piacenza. When that sqn finally got its Starfighters, as the final F-104 sqn in the Aeronautica Militare Italiano, also Italy chose to allocate a separate reservist sqn, selecting the no 52 Stormo, a number with proud traditions from WW2. The Stormo stayed at Piacenza in parallel with the Starfighters until 1985 when finally disbanding. The Italian Thunderstreaks followed the Starfighters changes in camouflage, ending up in a grey/green over bare metal scheme in the late seventies.

France however chose to retire its Thunderstreaks unmodified, instead flying Super Sabres and later Jaguars in the close air support role.


The soon-to-become Luftwaffe Thunderstreak model is yet as built out of the box, but I'm sketching on the wing chord extensions. I should have done that before adding the outer pylons, though.. 

[NARSES2]

 

[Pellson]

Checking the Stash^TM list, I realise I'll need another Thunderstreak to go. And looking through some vendor sites, I discover at least three, possibly four 1/700 ship kits coming to the market that I've been yearning for for quite some time.
This will be an expensive year. Again.. 

[Geoff]

I think these moded F-84F's would end up in other countries air arms - perhaps Portugal, and thence to Angola. S Vietnam in place of the F-5 perhaps. Later Turkey and Greece as recipients of ex Luftwaffe kit?



Hmmm just a thought and I have no idea what I am talking about - but would a mod similar to the 6-3 wing on a Sabre or slats like on the F-86E be viable - (and if this has been covered and I missed it sorry)

[McColm]

When Germany was unified the West German Air Force did inherit the aircraft from the East Germans. They kept most of it and the M.O.D.U.K. evaluated them as well. Some ended up on the ranges of Sainsbury Plan for gunnery practice whilst others found there way to the Electronic Warfare site up in Scotland and for fire training down in Cornwall.

[Pellson]

While fiddling with the F-84F, this F-100D popped up in an unrelated (well, almost) pic search on the web. OK, the markings are for JG 71 Richthofen, so an interceptor unit rather than a JaboG/fighterbomber one, so entirely wrong, but DAMN, its sexy!! 



Well, I guess they could have kept the F-84 for a bit while still getting the F-100 as well. If the cold war became hot enough, anything should have been possible, right?

[zenrat]

Would they have called it a Hun?

[PR19_Kit]

Would they have called it a Hun?

Perish the thought!   

[Pellson]

Stupid mistake really..  so version 1.02 below. Correction in red.

The F-84F Thunderstreak in continued NATO service

The F-84F Thunderstreak was widely used throughout NATO, and almost half of the 2711 units built were transferred to Europe for service within the allied air forces there. France was the first country to receive Thunderstreaks in 1955, but within a few years, also the air forces of Belgium, the Netherlands, Italy, West Germany, Greece and Turkey flew these sturdy fighterbombers.
Aeronautical evolution went fast at that time, and starting from 1961, most of the European F-84F's were being replaced with the new and more than twice as fast F-104G Starfighter. While the F-84F's had had their limitations, in particular regarding high-speed operations at low altitude and general high-altitude performance, the F-104G was a beast, and in particular in Germany, the Luftwaffe experienced substantial losses, culminating with 44 aircraft lost during 1964-1965. To solve this, in 1966, the Luftwaffe temporarily halted all low-level Starfighter operations, basically taking them off all air to ground duties, restricting them to medium and high-altitude interception duties. To fill the gap, the venerable F-84F was brought out of storage.

Not knowing for how long they would have to rely on the Thunderstreak, the Germans took the opportunity to try to remedy some of the worst vices of the aircraft. The German company Messerschmitt-Bolkow-Blohm was lended an airframe for rebuild and trials, and within seven months, the prototype was flying. The changes were actually rather substantial but visually mostly hard to detect from a distance. The original American J65 engines were replaced with near sisters in the form of British AS Sapphires giving about 20% more thrust. While this didn't improve the top speed, it significantly improved climbing and maneuvering and guaranteed a take-off roll with full load shorter than 2000 m under normal European circumstances, a significant improvement in its own. Adding a chord extension to the outer wing, also providing a vortex inducing dogtooth to the leading edge, helped with the above, but also improved low-level, high-speed performance, and as a bonus, significantly improved stall characteristics, making the aircraft much easier to fly safely close to its limits. The four 0,5 cal guns in the nose were replaced with two 20 mm M39's, improving efficacy against armoured targets while the guns in the wing roots were deleted altogether, saving some weight. Improved navigation and communication systems were integrated together with a laser ranger and marked target seeker (LRMTS), located behind transparent sections in the intake splitter wall, replacing the old gunranging radar.
Altogether, this produced a surprisingly effective strike and close air support aircraft, and during two years from 1967, more than 250 German Thunderstreaks were taken in hand for conversion and redelivered to the Bundeswehr, adding a third squadron to five fighterbomber wings (Jagdbombergeschwadern, or JaboG in German terminology), and fully equipping all three sqns of JaboG 35. Closely following the outcome of this exercise, the Dutch Air Force (Koninklijke Luchmacht), the Belgian Forces Aeriennes Belge and the Italian Aeronautica Militare followed suit, each upgrading their remaining Thunderstreak fleets along similar lines.

However, already in 1968, improved training, both of pilots and ground crew, had significantly impacted the flight safety record of the Starfighters throughout Europe, and the much higher attack speed of the F-104 was seen as imperative in dealing with Soviet air defence systems, in particular in the nuclear penetration role. Accordingly, Starfighters were reintroduced to strike duties and Thunderstreak operations were again wound down and many airframes stored. All four air forces however kept some numbers flying, partly as they were better suited for close air support than the lightning-fast Starfighters, but also to keep older pilots rotating out of Starfighter assignments active on a less demanding but still useful asset. They were also used to maintain offensive air trim in reservist pilots. While only about a third of the upgraded airframes were in active use at any given time, the aircraft were rotated between storage and active duty, evening out wear and tear.
In Germany, JaboG 35 was renumbered JaboG 38 in 1975, concentrating the Luftwaffe Thunderstreaks to one wing with four squadrons. Maintaining the CAS role together with the LeKG's (light fighterbomber wings) operating Fiat G.91R's, the wing was kept active until 1983 when it finally phased out its old F-84F's and reverted to training Tornado crews as an operational conversion unit. At this time, some of the F-84F's had been repainted in the new all green wraparound Norm 83 scheme.

In 1969, Belgium and the Netherlands formed a joint wing at Weelde Air Base, just on the Belgian side of the border. Following a somewhat slow start while the two countries moved airframes and operations from squadrons transferring to Mirages and NF-5's, respectively, they in time operated two squadrons each, the Belgian 6th and 12th sqns and the Dutch 704th and 705th sqns. As in Germany, this wing kept only a small active cadre, mainly filling its ranks with reservists. The Belgian aircraft from the start flew in US SEA camouflage, and the Dutch in their old dark grey/green over PRU blue scheme, but already in 1974 reverted to the standard NATO grey/green as applied to NF-5A's. Pilots from both countries regularly flew each other's mounts as the aircraft were kept and maintained on a fully shared basis. Both countries ceased operations and the wing disbanded in 1981.

The Italians flew their final F-84F's on the regular roster with no 50 sqn at Piacenza. When that sqn finally got its Starfighters, as the final F-104 sqn in the Aeronautica Militare Italiano, also Italy chose to allocate a separate reservist sqn, selecting the no 52 Stormo, a number with proud traditions from WW2. The Stormo stayed at Piacenza in parallel with the Starfighters until 1985 when finally disbanding. The Italian Thunderstreaks followed the Starfighters changes in camouflage, ending up in a grey/green over bare metal scheme in the late seventies.

France however chose to retire its Thunderstreaks unmodified, instead flying Super Sabres and later Jaguars in the close air support role.


End-of-school celebrations topped with live concert and a 650 km round trip pretty solidly consumed the latter half of last week including the weekend, so I'm still pondering the wing rework rather than actually working on it. Also, some outboard engine fixing has had to take precedence to any plastics. And today another shipping of Defender parts arrived, triggering what I hope is the final round of rebuilding before re-registering her as a regular car again, after 21 years as a lorry. Looking forward to that, actually. But from time to time, I really contemplate if I really have time and energy for all my hobbies..

[NARSES2]

Just spent 10 minutes looking for the correction, wish I needed as little red ink 

Good story 

[Gondor]

Would they have called it a Hun?

Perish the thought!   

I beleive that it was also known as the "Thud"

Gondor

[AeroplaneDriver]

When Germany was unified the West German Air Force did inherit the aircraft from the East Germans. They kept most of it and the M.O.D.U.K. evaluated them as well. Some ended up on the ranges of Sainsbury Plan for gunnery practice whilst others found there way to the Electronic Warfare site up in Scotland and for fire training down in Cornwall.

That would be Spadeadam Sir...solidly within England!!!   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Spadeadam

[Pellson]

I beleive that it was also known as the "Thud"

Gondor

I THINK the "Thud" was one of the nicknames of the Republic F-105 Thunderchief, but I might be wrong.

A Luftwaffe Thud is in the pipeline, though, and I already have most of the backstory drafted. I just need a second lease of life to get it built.. 
Anyway - if I get there, it'll be something along these lines:



Sexy bugger, that one as well, even if the Hun rendition above is incredibly much better.