Wooksta's brainwaves

[Weaver]

Exhibit A:

[dogsbody]

I've made a slight revision by eliminating the outer wing leading edge intakes. I didn't think they would be needed on a single engine aircraft and it cuts down on drag.




Chris

[Mossie]

Rolling with the twin boom to single idea, and more in Lee's interests, how about a Vampire with a conventional fuselage?  End result might be something like a P.1081.  Ouragan or Mystere as a donor?

[The Wooksta!]

Vampire?  I'd go more for bifurcated exhausts - the pod/boom thing was to get away from long exhaust ducting.  Single fuselage Vampire would probably look more like a Sea Hawk with a Vampire nose and Hornet tailfin.

Many, many years ago, way back in the mists of time, Airfix Magazine did a conversion from a Frog Sea Hawk to a Vampire.  Don't know how much was used or how it was done, I just remember glancing at an article.

Back onto safer ground.  Finnish post war Henschel Hs 123s re-engined with Bristol Mercuries.  Or Spanish late Arado Ar 68H with the radial engine, preferably in nice silver post war paint scheme.  Airfix for the former and Huma for the latter.

Wasn't there a radial Fury?  Yes.  Persian, with PW Hornet and the Bristol Mercury.  Scratch that one as it's real.  Although a Mercury Fury in RAF colours could cause confusion, but it's quite a conversion.

[Weaver]

I've made a slight revision by eliminating the outer wing leading edge intakes. I didn't think they would be needed on a single engine aircraft and it cuts down on drag.

Chris

Fair enough, although note that I've also lengthened the engine cowling to imply that it's a four-row radial, so it might well need as much intake air & oil cooling as two twin-row ones...

[Weaver]

Rolling with the twin boom to single idea, and more in Lee's interests, how about a Vampire with a conventional fuselage?  End result might be something like a P.1081.  Ouragan or Mystere as a donor?

There was a real proposal for a single-fuselage Sea Venom night-fighter, the DH.116 'Super Venom'.

Along similar lines, it's occured to me to put a Sea Venom nose on a Grumman Panther or Cougar.

[The Wooksta!]

I did scale up the drawings for the Super Venom, and gathered a few bits, but that's as far as it got.

[Weaver]

Back onto safer ground.  Finnish post war Henschel Hs 123s re-engined with Bristol Mercuries.  Or Spanish late Arado Ar 68H with the radial engine, preferably in nice silver post war paint scheme.  Airfix for the former and Huma for the latter.

I have a Mercury-engined Hs-123, 126 and 129 on the to-do list, although in my case they're products of a fictional British manufacturer.

[Mossie]

Rolling with the twin boom to single idea, and more in Lee's interests, how about a Vampire with a conventional fuselage?  End result might be something like a P.1081.  Ouragan or Mystere as a donor?

There was a real proposal for a single-fuselage Sea Venom night-fighter, the DH.116 'Super Venom'.

Along similar lines, it's occured to me to put a Sea Venom nose on a Grumman Panther or Cougar.

Yeah, I was thinking of an earlier version.  Lee's right about, the twin boom and bifurcated exhausts being to reduce the exhaust, however we were the only nation to give it much thought but then ditched the idea.

[Weaver]

Rolling with the twin boom to single idea, and more in Lee's interests, how about a Vampire with a conventional fuselage?  End result might be something like a P.1081.  Ouragan or Mystere as a donor?

There was a real proposal for a single-fuselage Sea Venom night-fighter, the DH.116 'Super Venom'.

Along similar lines, it's occured to me to put a Sea Venom nose on a Grumman Panther or Cougar.

Yeah, I was thinking of an earlier version.  Lee's right about, the twin boom and bifurcated exhausts being to reduce the exhaust, however we were the only nation to give it much thought but then ditched the idea.

Well the undercut nozzle on the Grumman Panther/Cougar is a result of the same issues. After a few years of work they'd figured out how to match long jetpipes to the engine characteristics, so it stopped being a problem.

[Weaver]

One easy and credible (though expensive) whiff would be to get the Sharkit model of the Gloster CXP-1001 export fighter and put it in RAF markings. He even included RAF markings on his first decal sheet, although that isn't available any more.

http://sharkit.com/sharkit/CXP/cxp.htm

http://internationalresinmodellers.com/articles_2_building_a_gloster_cxp-1001

[The Wooksta!]

Here's something else whilst we're playing about.

The Meteor.  Move the cockpit back to a more normal position as though it were a single engined prop fighter.  Don't think anyone's tried that.

[Weaver]

Here's something else whilst we're playing about.

The Meteor.  Move the cockpit back to a more normal position as though it were a single engined prop fighter.  Don't think anyone's tried that.

You can generalise that one a bit. There were very distinct British-style noses and American-style noses in the early jets:

British-style
Cockpit right in the nose, guns and ammo cans behind the cockpit, barrels under the floor either side of the nosewheel bay or down the sides of the cockpit.

Vampire
Venom
Meteor
Hunter
Seahawk
Hornet

American-style
Cockpit set back from the nose, guns and ammo cans ahead of the cockpit with muzzles at, or near, the very tip of the nose.

Shooting Star
Panther
Cougar
Phantom I
Banshee
Lightning

Just as you can very probably graft a Sea Venom nose onto a Panther, so you can probably graft a Panther nose onto a Vampire/Vernom/Seahawk. You might well be able to graft a Banshee nose onto a Meteor, though I havn't looked at it in detail.

[Old Wombat]

The British method gave the pilots a better view over the nose & allowed the after-market installation of radar units without the loss of fire-power (albeit somewhat to the detriment of the forward view).

If you look at the evolution of American fighters, they eventually went British as nose radars became the norm; moving the ammunition cans & gun breeches to behind the cockpit, with the gun barrels passing below or to the sides of the cockpit so they could fit the radar into the nose.

Meanwhile, the Brit's merely adopted longer stream-lined noses to fit pre-production radars.

[James W.]

Exhibit A:

That single engine P-61.. "Flight of the Phoenix"?
Ironic since in the story - the Phoenix was the idea of a modeller..

Albeit the belly cannon will have to go.. elsewhere in the wing, they weren't amenable to interrupter gear AFAIR..

Adit: Cannon comment.