How far are we willing to go?

[Velvet_Scarlantina]

I happened to chance upon this picture here and I posted it to an FB group asking if this was for real or not and some did comment that it was just a speculated project.

Than comes the comment that radar technology was not advanced or miniature enough to fit it into a radome at the top of the plane.

My question is, how far are we willing to bend reality in our quest for what-ifs?

[PR19_Kit]

It's YOUR WhiffWorld, you can bend it as far as you like. You make the rules......

Take a look at some of Tophe's creations to see exactly what I mean. 

[tigercat]

The Sky's the limit . I've put a Hawker Sea Fury engine on a Fairey Swordfish and painted it yellow and covered it in Kodak sponsorship.

Imagination is only limit.

[zenrat]

...how far are we willing to bend reality in our quest for what-ifs?

All the way dude. All the way until it shatters.

And then some.

[Rheged]

...how far are we willing to bend reality in our quest for what-ifs?

All the way dude. All the way until it shatters.

And then some.

Agreed!!    You bend reality as far as you feel necessary.       As Buzz Lightyear said  "To infinity and beyond"

[Hobbes]

This is the Wellington ACI, the first attempt at AEW:



(found on Britmodeller)

So a dome with an antenna like this inside wouldn't be out of the question.

[wuzak]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborne_early_warning_and_control

After having developed the first ground based early-warning radar detection system, Chain Home, the British developed a radar set that could be carried on an aircraft for what they termed "Air Controlled Interception". The intention was to cover the North West approaches where German long range Focke-Wulf Fw 200 Condor aircraft were threatening shipping. A Vickers Wellington bomber (serial R1629) was fitted with a rotating antenna array. It was tested for use against aerial targets and then for possible use against German E boats.[7][8] Another radar equipped Wellington with a different installation was used to direct Bristol Beaufighters toward Heinkel He 111s, which were air-launching V-1 flying bombs.

https://deffordairfieldheritagegroup.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/picture31.jpg

[sandiego89]

Well we do not know what the At 234 drawing is supposed to depict.  If it is a dish or phased array type radar, I agree that the technology was not there yet.  A small phased array antenna was just not possible in 1945ish, but obviously other smallish and strange shaped radars like the Wellington, the Eagle APQ-7 on the B-29 which looked more like a long blade, and various German and UK designs that do not look like a dish, but various blades, wires and probes. The small wing mounted radar on Hellcats is a good example of a small package.

Regardless of the radar depicted, using the term "AWACS" for our cheery Ar-234 is a huge stretch.  NO airborne radar at the time could really provide precision long range detection, tracking and ranging with accuracy for a true AWACS role.  The black boxes would have been huge, and dedicated operators of the gear would be required.  You also need these folks to communicate with other aircraft if you are in the "control" mode.  Our Ar-234 has no room for all this, and the pilot had other things to do. It does depend on what the drawing is trying to depict- we can't tell how wide the antenna is from a side view. If it is a small blade type of antenna as a night fighter- OK I will buy it to a point.  If it is trying to imply a "AWACS", nope.   
       
On counter point, I mostly prefer WHIF's that have a dose of historical and technological reality, and do not defy physics.  I enjoy pushing the envelope a bit, but not beyond the pale.  More of "that could have happened": vs. "that would never happen".  To each his own....The magic of WHIF. 

[kitnut617]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborne_early_warning_and_control

After having developed the first ground based early-warning radar detection system, Chain Home, the British developed a radar set that could be carried on an aircraft for what they termed "Air Controlled Interception". The intention was to cover the North West approaches where German long range Focke-Wulf Fw 200 Condor aircraft were threatening shipping. A Vickers Wellington bomber (serial R1629) was fitted with a rotating antenna array. It was tested for use against aerial targets and then for possible use against German E boats.[7][8] Another radar equipped Wellington with a different installation was used to direct Bristol Beaufighters toward Heinkel He 111s, which were air-launching V-1 flying bombs.

https://deffordairfieldheritagegroup.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/picture31.jpg

An article in an Air-Britain quarterly I get says it was actually used on a mission to direct aircraft onto a ship target. Some info had been got by the UK intelligence that some capital ships were going to be moving down the Norwegian coast on a certain day and it was decided to use the AWAC to direct the operation. It failed, but not because of the technology, but because the ships didn't leave port when they had been reported they would be leaving. It wasn't used again in a follow up operation.  I have a very good book called 'Radar Reflections', it tells the same story and another where a large radar dish was installed in the nose of a powered Hamilcar for the same purpose. This was during WWII.

[PR19_Kit]

The black boxes would have been huge, and dedicated operators of the gear would be required.  You also need these folks to communicate with other aircraft if you are in the "control" mode.  Our Ar-234 has no room for all this, and the pilot had other things to do.

Sounds like a job for an Me323. 

[scooter]

The black boxes would have been huge, and dedicated operators of the gear would be required.  You also need these folks to communicate with other aircraft if you are in the "control" mode.  Our Ar-234 has no room for all this, and the pilot had other things to do.

Sounds like a job for an Me323. 

WiIth bigger engines and wings

[The Rat]

It's YOUR WhiffWorld, you can bend it as far as you like. You make the rules......

Quoted for truthiness. If you need to justify it, a good backstory can help. And they can be wilder than the build!

[Dizzyfugu]

That AWACS-style Ar 234 was a real project - and a night fighter with a rotating antenna for a panoramic FuG 244 'Berlin N' search radar (rotating at 1.000 RPM!); supposed doameter of 1.5m, concept was discussed/tested in a wind tunnel in Feb. 1945, and a smaller 90cm antenna was also under development. Things do not have to be bent too much...

Build one (easy to create!), and put it on public display. Will certainly turn heads - and nobody will believe you that it was a night fighter. "No, see, it's an AWACS thing! You got it wrong!"

[Velvet_Scarlantina]

Interesting insights guys.

I've decided to go with the AWACS Ar 234 and put it on a "Super Taiho" or a G15-125 "Japanese" carrier





Next thing is, does it make sense for a CV to carry mixed fighter complement? Kikka and A7M2 fighters on her?

Or how about the narrative where navalised Kikka were put on her for validation of operational use in actual combat conditions?

[sandiego89]

Next thing is, does it make sense for a CV to carry mixed fighter complement? Kikka and A7M2 fighters on her?

Or how about the narrative where navalised Kikka were put on her for validation of operational use in actual combat conditions?

Great start there, always nice to see more 1/700 carriers on here!  I think a mixed complement is just fine as early jets often operated alongside piston types.

-Dave