Stalwart Mk2(DC) & Mk3

[marky]

The one I got to sit in a month or so back had just had it's engine (standard Rolls Royce straight eight petrol) 'retuned' and the owner was really chuffed that he was getting 10 mpg out of it! 

That's quite impressive. The official figure when new was 4 miles to the gallon

[marky]

What I always found interesting about the Stalwart was that it had a central driving position and the only way into the cab was via the roof hatches.   Even so, despite that, model manufacturers always moulded it as having cab doors...   

Some of the early prototypes did have cab doors, but more than one sank and they never did solve the leak problem.

When they're waterborne the waterline is just above the cargo deck, and WELL above where the lower edge of the doors were. The pic below shows one just still in the water, and when they're moving there's all sorts of wash to contend with as well.

The Stalwart came from the Camion. The Camion was Alvis's venture to make a High mobility load carrier that could carry 5 tonnes. It was chassis number Project Vehicle 1, or PV 1 and was a Alvis Salamander chassis.
The army then asked if it was capable of crossing water, because they had conducted snorkelling trials with the Saracen.
Camion was then taken by MOD for water trials, and they wrapped the Salamander doors to make it waterproof. The Salamander has a roof hatch for the fire fighting water monitor, and Alvis witnessed the army trials using that hatch as the doors were sealed off.
The first version of the actual Stalwart (PV 2) started life with full length sides and a large sliding roof hatch, which was changed to a single Salamander hatch, and then to the larger and familiar twin hatches.

Camion


First version of Stalwart PV 2

[marky]

..... and I have just received this little gem of info from Mossie/Simon.

By the way, one thing I found when I built (well, nearly) the BW Models kit is that the RAF had at least two Stollies (they did a boxing) as a Reef Rescue Unit at RAF Gan.  One had a dayglo orange stripe, the other a yellow cab.  Guess what?  They retained their Army reg's.    One in the eye to the JMN!
http://www.tonysirrell.com/raf-gan-work.php

07ER57 (known to have been to Thailand for trials in 1966) became 09AH16. 07ER63 became 00AG79. Both served with RAF from January 1967 to March 1976, when they were returned to the army. They were based at RAF Gan as Reef Rescue and manned by the RAF Fire fighters. 07ER57 was seen at A F Budge yard in the 90s

[marky]

...
The truth is however much less exciting.
A/ I had  no idea as  to how the vehicle registration system worked in the UK MOD.

The letters denote the year into service, EK being 1962/63

See https://nanopdf.com/download/vehicle-registration-numbers-vrn_pdf

[marky]

Of course you could also have Berliet Aurochs as well

Any Berliet would have been built in Coventry, not under licence. Not sure which prototype chassis number this one is at the moment, still searching.

Civil versions

Ex British Army. Civilian ones bought from the factory can be counted on one hand.
There was a phase of people in America and Canada buying Stalwarts for dukw tours, but there was a disaster when the propulsion unit of one wasn't maintained properly. The propulsion propeller fan came lose and chopped through the aluminium propulsion tunnel, and then pumped gallons of water into the hull.
There is a stretched version still in operation in Chili.

[PR19_Kit]

Please tell us how you know all this, did you work for Alvis at one time, and if so would I have known you in the mid-60s when we at Pressed Steel did all sorts of strain gauging for Alvis and the Army on the Stalwart drive shafts?

[Weaver]

Marky, with respect to Jaybee's model, I think you may have missed the point of this website. We do 'what ifs' here: everything from nearly-happened-but-didn'ts' and credible alternative history through to out-and-out sci-fi and obvious jokes.

I'm sure Jaybee knows full well that there was no diesel-engined Stalwart Mk.3 in the Gulf War. He's presenting an entertaining thought-experiment, not actual history.

[JayBee]

Marky, with respect to Jaybee's model, I think you may have missed the point of this website. We do 'what ifs' here: everything from nearly-happened-but-didn'ts' and credible alternative history through to out-and-out sci-fi and obvious jokes.

I'm sure Jaybee knows full well that there was no diesel-engined Stalwart Mk.3 in the Gulf War. He's presenting an entertaining thought-experiment, not actual history.

H is absolutely correct in that surmise. I have always loved the "StollY" and this was just a flight of fancy that came to me, sparked by the arrival of the S&M kit. Don't knock it Marky, or you will be labeled forever as a JMN!!!!!

[Rick Lowe]

H is absolutely correct in that surmise. I have always loved the "StollY" and this was just a flight of fancy that came to me, sparked by the arrival of the S&M kit. Don't knock it Marky, or you will be labeled forever as a JMN!!!!!

And a really nice job you did on that model too, JB

Glad there is now a kit, as the old Airfix Mag conversion Scratchbuild was always too daunting to attempt... though the price of a 1/76 model these days...

[marky]

Please tell us how you know all this, did you work for Alvis at one time, and if so would I have known you in the mid-60s when we at Pressed Steel did all sorts of strain gauging for Alvis and the Army on the Stalwart drive shafts?

Kit, sorry for the late reply. Forgot to tick the Notify me of replies
I'm an ex Royal Engineer Stolly op, and now admin of the Alvis HMLC group on Facebook. There is a book on the Alvis Stalwart story, I have a contact who used to work on the Stalwart production line through it's entire production period, and I've done a lot of research whilst on Furlough earlier in the year

[marky]

Marky, with respect to Jaybee's model, I think you may have missed the point of this website. We do 'what ifs' here: everything from nearly-happened-but-didn'ts' and credible alternative history through to out-and-out sci-fi and obvious jokes.

I'm sure Jaybee knows full well that there was no diesel-engined Stalwart Mk.3 in the Gulf War. He's presenting an entertaining thought-experiment, not actual history.

Weaver, sorry for the late reply. Forgot to tick the Notify me of replies.
I fully get and understand the what ifs. There was diesel stalwarts, but only 1 from Alvis. After military service, A F Budge converted some to diesel, before they went bust. But, if there was a Mk 3 from Alvis, it would have more than just a diesel engine. Bearing in mind that this would have happened at the very end of the 60s - There was an issue with the length of the load bed - we could only get 4 pallets of mines on the FV622 GS, because they were that bit too short. A foot or two on the hull length would have made a big difference to supplies

[marky]

Marky, with respect to Jaybee's model, I think you may have missed the point of this website. We do 'what ifs' here: everything from nearly-happened-but-didn'ts' and credible alternative history through to out-and-out sci-fi and obvious jokes.

I'm sure Jaybee knows full well that there was no diesel-engined Stalwart Mk.3 in the Gulf War. He's presenting an entertaining thought-experiment, not actual history.

H is absolutely correct in that surmise. I have always loved the "StollY" and this was just a flight of fancy that came to me, sparked by the arrival of the S&M kit. Don't knock it Marky, or you will be labeled forever as a JMN!!!!!

Jaybee, lot of historical information for the group in my posts above. I appreciate that they might have thrown a few people's previous comments into doubt. Every former Stolly op that I know would be chuffed if they did slap a diesel engine in, as they did with the 432 and the CVRTs. Having factual information helps with the fantasy version

[Weaver]

Marky, with respect to Jaybee's model, I think you may have missed the point of this website. We do 'what ifs' here: everything from nearly-happened-but-didn'ts' and credible alternative history through to out-and-out sci-fi and obvious jokes.

I'm sure Jaybee knows full well that there was no diesel-engined Stalwart Mk.3 in the Gulf War. He's presenting an entertaining thought-experiment, not actual history.

Weaver, sorry for the late reply. Forgot to tick the Notify me of replies.
I fully get and understand the what ifs. There was diesel stalwarts, but only 1 from Alvis. After military service, A F Budge converted some to diesel, before they went bust. But, if there was a Mk 3 from Alvis, it would have more than just a diesel engine. Bearing in mind that this would have happened at the very end of the 60s - There was an issue with the length of the load bed - we could only get 4 pallets of mines on the FV622 GS, because they were that bit too short. A foot or two on the hull length would have made a big difference to supplies

Fair enough, I'm glad that you get it and I hope that you enjoy the what-ifs on here.

My response was prompted by the "nope, that's wrong" tone of your posts, which gave the impression that you didn't understand that being "entertainingly wrong" is the entire point of what-ifs, an impression lent credibility by the fact that you're relatively new to the site. You wouldn't be the first person to assume that a what-if model was the result of a genuine mistake, rather than a conscious deviation from reality.

It's very easy to misread tone on the internet, where you only have words on a screen to go on, and misunderstandings abound. In recognition of that, let me make it clear that I'm not annoyed with you and I wasn't "rebuking" you: I was just making sure that you understood the fantasy context that applies to everything on here. Now that it's clear you do, I hope you have a look around and enjoy the rest of the site. There's a surprising amount of factual research and real information posted on here as well as the fantasies and thought-experiments; after all, nobody wants to get it "accidentally right"...

Have fun.

[Pellson]

There was an issue with the length of the load bed - we could only get 4 pallets of mines on the FV622 GS, because they were that bit too short. A foot or two on the hull length would have made a big difference to supplies

..this implying that a sawn up and extended Stolly will be the next Jaybee project.. 

On an IRL notice - we had them over here as well, in our coastal defence artillery. Tow tractors pulling mobile fire control radars, , if I remember correctly.

[PR19_Kit]

Kit, sorry for the late reply. Forgot to tick the Notify me of replies
I'm an ex Royal Engineer Stolly op, and now admin of the Alvis HMLC group on Facebook. There is a book on the Alvis Stalwart story, I have a contact who used to work on the Stalwart production line through it's entire production period, and I've done a lot of research whilst on Furlough earlier in the year

Once I've built my 'inaugural AFV' kit, a Tamiya Challenger 2 which arrived today  , I'd like to try a larger scale Stolly, modelled on the one we did the strain gauge tests on if I can remember enough about it.

Did you do the 'drive the Stolly fast off a high kerb' business to 'unwind' the transmission in the Engineers? Our Alvis test driver invented that I think when they were having all sorts of problems with the drive shafts winding up due to the lack of a centre diff on the things. That6's exactly why we were doing all the strain gauging in the first place of course.