F7U-3 Cutlass conversion

[The Rat]

Unless the wings are breaking off in level flight, it ain't overpowered! 

[Weaver]

You could up-rate a Cutlass by replacing the J-34s with two Bristol Orpheus:

J-34: 112" x 27", 1207lb weight, 4600lb dry thrust, 6000lb w/reheat
Orpheus: 75.45" x 32.4", 835lb weight, 5000lb dry thrust

Obviously the fuselage and intakes would still need to be enlarged, but not by a huge or unrealistic amount.


Most Orpheii had no afterburner, but a couple did, neither of which I have length data for:

Mk.703R (used in HF-24 Marut): 5720lb with Hindustan Aircraft afterburner
BOr.12 (cancelled): 6810lb dry, 8170lb w/reheat

[albeback]

Love the idea. Just one small point though. The J-79 produced about 4 times the thrust of the J-34 engine!! A Cutlass so engined would be massively over powered would it not? How about a SINGLE J-79? Alternatively, the F-7/F-4 hybrid illustrated would seem to fit the bill just nicely!


Allan

I think overpowered is a good thing.  I mean, everyone knows that the English Electric Lightning was overpowered, and everyone loved it - the punters at the air shows who got to see it demonstrated, and the pilots who got to fly it. (Loved the power, I mean - no-one particularly liked its short range.)

So I think the Cutlass will be fine - we're going to reinforce the fuselage with Unobtainium, you know, and if that can make it to the centre of the Earth, as Hollywood assures us it can, then I think we'll be OK. 

I like the way you think!

Allan

[Old Wombat]

Those engines are piping hot!


Hat! Coat! Gone!

[NARSES2]

Those engines are piping hot!


Hat! Coat! Gone!

So you should as well 

[Scotaidh]

You could up-rate a Cutlass by replacing the J-34s with two Bristol Orpheus:

J-34: 112" x 27", 1207lb weight, 4600lb dry thrust, 6000lb w/reheat
Orpheus: 75.45" x 32.4", 835lb weight, 5000lb dry thrust

Obviously the fuselage and intakes would still need to be enlarged, but not by a huge or unrealistic amount.


Most Orpheii had no afterburner, but a couple did, neither of which I have length data for:

Mk.703R (used in HF-24 Marut): 5720lb with Hindustan Aircraft afterburner
BOr.12 (cancelled): 6810lb dry, 8170lb w/reheat

Thanks for the input, but to be blunt - if I'm going to up-engine and re-do the fuselage, then I'm going to make it worth the trouble.  A 400lb increase in dry thrust doesn't seem worth the bother.  If it were s 1000lb increase, then I might go for it.  Thing is, I've got the F-4 models, and I don't have anything (of which I'm aware) that used the Orpheus.  I'm checking with Google, so we'll see.  Perhaps another model. 

[Weaver]

You could up-rate a Cutlass by replacing the J-34s with two Bristol Orpheus:

J-34: 112" x 27", 1207lb weight, 4600lb dry thrust, 6000lb w/reheat
Orpheus: 75.45" x 32.4", 835lb weight, 5000lb dry thrust

Obviously the fuselage and intakes would still need to be enlarged, but not by a huge or unrealistic amount.


Most Orpheii had no afterburner, but a couple did, neither of which I have length data for:

Mk.703R (used in HF-24 Marut): 5720lb with Hindustan Aircraft afterburner
BOr.12 (cancelled): 6810lb dry, 8170lb w/reheat

Thanks for the input, but to be blunt - if I'm going to up-engine and re-do the fuselage, then I'm going to make it worth the trouble.  A 400lb increase in dry thrust doesn't seem worth the bother.  If it were s 1000lb increase, then I might go for it.  Thing is, I've got the F-4 models, and I don't have anything (of which I'm aware) that used the Orpheus.  I'm checking with Google, so we'll see.  Perhaps another model. 

Oh yeah, I wasn't suggesting that you should modify your model, this was just me thinking aloud having been inspired by it.

A 2000-odd lb increase in afterburning thrust from the BOr.12 would be worthwhile surely?

[Scotaidh]

Oh, no - not arguing with the afterburner increase.  It's just that I've always regarded reheat as one of those things to be used sparingly - rather like Spitfire & Hurricane pilots shoving their throttles 'through the gate' when they needed a few extra revs to get out of trouble.

Besides, as I understand it, reheat uses up a lot of fuel, so the less one uses it the farther one can go. 

[Charlie_c67]

Err doesn't the BOr.12 have a 2,210lb increase when dry over the J-34? And an 810lb increase while dry over the American on full burn!? I'd assume it'd have a different exhaust than those found on the Gnat or Marut all the same.

[Scotaidh]

All data is from Wikipedia - because I can't find a better source, so please feel free to find/quote one:

"BOr.12
    With a simplified reheat system the BOr.12 was rated at 6,810 lbf (30.29 kN) dry and 8,170 lbf (36.34 kN) with afterburning."

"The Cutlass-3's Westinghouse J46-WE-8 was rated at        3,980 lbf (20.46 kN) dry and 5,800 lbf (27.13 kN) with afterburning"

[Scotaidh]

And, it's all moot.  Not to quash or stifle discussion, but I'm using the J79s because that is what my design is based upon.    Other engines would require a new design, and I've already ordered and received kits, cut plastic - kit parts, greeblies, and sheet stock - and last but not least, told you lot what I'm building.   

So chat and chaffer at will, chaps, but it's all a bit late because my mind is made up - don't confuse me with facts.

[Scotaidh]

Engines together. Now I can start getting the fuselage together, now I know the size of the gubbins it must contain.


As you can see, I'll need to apply the fuselage stretcher. I think I'll need about an inch or so - about 6 scale feet. Might have to lengthen the wings, too - the original items always seemed rather stubby, to me. "If it looks right, it is right" said the man who designed the Hunter. :-)

[zenrat]

Thats one of the joys of this forum mate.
We all feel free to join in and tell each other how we would build each others projects, pointing out where, in our opinions, the other has gone wrong.
And mostly it doesn't matter because in Whiff world you can justify almost anything.

[Charlie_c67]

Exactly. Sad to say I've seen the vagaries of people getting a little too....upset when a kit bash or conversion doesn't fit to their idea of a mythical universe/storyline. Just creates bad feeling and isn't worth the time. Dread to think what they'll say with what I've got planned 

[PR19_Kit]

The whole ethos of Whiffing is that you can always 'adjust' the backstory to suit the way that model is panning out, no matter how far it's diverting from your original plans.