C-130 Hercules

[Burncycle]

How about a C-130 tiltrotor (ala V-22)?

The Appleseed movie had something similar

[Maverick]

A scale flying model tested by Lockheed early on had wing tip floats and a stepped hull.  I'd go that direction as outrigger pontoons always looked a bit 'odd' to me, excepting of course on Dorniers!

Regards,

Mav

[jcf]

What do you think floats or outriggers form the hull?  Considering doing a C-130 with a  new stepped flying boat hull.

Something to bear in mind is that many of the large flying boat aircraft designed in the UK and US since the mid-1940s have used a 'faired' step hull design.

Jon

[Jeffry Fontaine]

What do you think floats or outriggers from the hull?  Considering doing a C-130 with a  new stepped flying boat hull.

Hi Steve,

I think the idea of incorporating a Boeing Clipper type hull with the small sponsons affixed to the fuselage would be perfect for the amphibian C-130 since it would allow the Hercules to keep the main landing gear in almost the same location as the standard Hercules.  Of course the hull portion of the fuselage would have to be deeper to allow the aircraft to float without compromising the rear cargo ramp and doors that are already low to the ground when it is on wheels. 

[kitnut617]

While in Calgary today I stopped off at the LMS to talk with someone there about powerboats which have hulls like in the picture I posted a few posts back.  My plan was to use a small RC powerboat hull to do this conversion but first, the guy wasn't there and second, the hull we had been talking about over the phone previously, wasn't what I was looking for.  But I did find a float set for a RC plane which is about 21 inches long, and for only C$17.00.  So I bought it to see if I could use it instead on my conversion,  unfortunately they're a bit too big for 1/72 scale C-130s, but they might be perfect for a 1/48 scale one.  Or even to make a 1/48 C-130 flying boat (hint hint)

The pair of floats are vacuform and are of the whole planing bottom with the topside being made of Styrofoam.   I'm going to take a number of profiles at different points and scale it down to the required size for my project but the floats are now surplus once I've done my measurements.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Or even to make a 1/48 C-130 flying boat (hint hint)

Might be better off trying to mate a pair of PT Boat hulls to your Hercules (Airfix Vosper or Rescue, Revell ELCO, Higgins, or Vosper).  The stepped effect could be accomplished by using the rear half of the second hull in a stepped position off of the forward hull section.  The gap between would be filled with card stock to make up for the difference in hull sizes.  The single hull would still require outrigger floats on the wings but you might be able to incorporate the landing gear into the hull to create an amphibian instead of just a flying boat. 

[jcf]

If one looks carefully a the illustration of the C-130 on floats it becomes apparent that the floats are flat on the inboard side, in other words they are like the sponsons of a pickle-fork hull ( were you originally looking at a hydro model?)... so would cutting one of the floats you bought down the centreline give you something usable? Or is it still too large?

Jon

[kitnut617]

If one looks carefully a the illustration of the C-130 on floats it becomes apparent that the floats are flat on the inboard side, in other words they are like the sponsons of a pickle-fork hull ( were you originally looking at a hydro model?)... so would cutting one of the floats you bought down the centreline give you something usable? Or is it still too large?

Jon

My original thoughts to make this conversion was to use a twin hull powerboat which has these vertical sides, I was told by some boat orientated guy that the term was either Channel or Tunnel hull, but since then I think the guy was thinking about another type of powerboat hull, like what you see in the Unlimited Powerboat racing series.  I was thinking more of an open sea powerboat twin hull, but I have to admit I've not heard of the term 'pickle-fork' before.  After seeing the floats I found at the store yesterday, I thought I could do just you say, cut it down the middle and add card to make a vertical surface.

But these floats are just way too big for a 1/72 C-130, but (grinding gear noises going on here) I did read about a proposed C-5 floatplane, or was it a C-17 
In the picture the floats look to be about the same length as the C-130's fuselage so I think if I was to take a number of section profiles of these floats, then scale the whole thing down so they end up at the same length as the fuselage, the rest of it will fall into place.

[jcf]

You may find these EDO float drawings of some use in laying out your floats:
http://www.internetmodeler.com/references/edo-wa4665.pdf

The majority of hydroplane racing boats have a pickle-fork hull.

Jon

p.s. you should make a big idroscivolante out of those RC floats. 

[kitnut617]

Some progress on my upcoming C-130 Floatplane, I was in Calgary a month or so ago and went to a LMS that I only go to occasionally and found that they have expanded on what they sell.  Originally called the RC Hanger (now called Action Hobby) and dealing mostly in RC aircraft but with a small section of plastic models, I found they are now into just about anything that involves RC.  While there I saw a small twin hulled powerboat which is of the type I was particularly looking for and asked if I could just buy a hull for the model, and found out I could so I ordered one.

Yesterday while in Calgary, I picked up the hull and found it to be just about what I want.  It compares very well with the picture (the one I posted a few posts back) and more importantly, is just about right for a 1/72 C-130 floatplane.

Here's some photos of what I got, before and then after I pulled the top off (it was all glued together)  I now have a good base to start making the floats I need for my project.

[kitnut617]

Here's a comparison of the hull with a C-130 fuselage, it looks like all I need to do is cut about 1/2" off the top of the hulls, move the step forward a bit and then reprofile the rear end of the hulls to make it more like an aircraft float;

[GTX]

Real world C-130 whiff possibilities:

Lockheed looks to widen Hercules
By Stephen Trimble

Lockheed Martin confirms studies are under way for a new version of the C-130 featuring a wider fuselage to accommodate a proposed class of US Army ground vehicles entering service after 2015. The enlarged airlifter would compete against the Airbus Military A400M and Boeing's proposed C-17B to support the army's Future Combat System.

"There's clearly things we can do to the C-130 to increase the size of the fuselage if there's a market that wants that," says Jim Grant, Lockheed's business development director for global mobility and special operations forces.

"We have teams looking at what it would take to make a [longer] fuselage," Grant says, "and then we also have the design teams looking at the emerging technologies should the requirements drive us to the new airframe."

Current plans for the FCS consist of a family of networked vehicles and systems, including a key subset of manned ground vehicles that has already outgrown the C-130's cargo hold and payload weight limits. The current aircraft's cargo box has a diameter of 2.78m (9ft), versus 4m for the A400M and 5.48m for the C-17A.

The US Air Force plans to main­tain a fleet of nearly 600 new or upgraded Hercules, and believes a mix of 221 modernised C-130Hs and 172 new-generation C-130Js will be sufficient to meet most of the army's intra-theatre airlift requirement, as only 15 of its 76 future brigade combat teams will receive FCS equipment.

But with the fleet to leave a capability gap for the proposed FCS manned ground vehicles after 2015, the USAF is discussing several options.

One is to partner the army to develop an all-new airlifter for delivery after 2021. A notional development programme called Joint Future Theatre Lift, emphasising either vertical or super-short take-off and access to austere airstrips, is in the planning stages.

Another option is to buy an off-the-shelf aircraft such as the A400M. Boeing has also proposed the C-17B, which is adapted for austere landings with higher-thrust engines, triple-slotted flaps and an extra main landing gear.

Meanwhile, Lockheed is considering a widened version of the C-130J. Grant says engineers are studying modifications for super-short take-off capability, but appears dubious that any existing turboprop-powered airlifter will be large enough to accommodate the FCS requirement.

"I don't know whether the A400M will be able to carry the [FCS manned ground] vehicles," Grant says. "I do not know whether the weight of those vehicles will climb right through the weight [limit] of the A400M or not. What I can say is that the A400M will continue to be very heavy for [C-130]J-type capability."

Source

Regards,

Greg

[Hobbes]

Wouldn't they be better designing an entirely new aircaft?  Surely re-hashing a fifty year old aircraft is just going to cause problems in the long run?

They save money by not having to redesign everything. The main drawback is that the carryovers are old designs and less efficient (aerodynamics, maintainability) than new parts would be.
I suspect they'll end up using only minor parts, because if you design a bigger fuselage and want increased MTOW, you have to strengthen the wing as well. Before you know it, there's a weight spiral going on which requires more powerful engines, which require more fuel, etc.

The situation is not as bad as the Nimrod MRA4, the wider aircraft would be all-new construction.

[Spey_Phantom]

thats right,

lockheed is making a higher wide-body version of the C-130J, the C-130XL 

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/09/22/316314/picture-lockheed-martin-unveils-wider-larger-c-130xl-to-fight.html

now, who would buy them 

[Jeffry Fontaine]

thats right,
lockheed is making a higher wide-body version of the C-130J, the C-130XL 
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/09/22/316314/picture-lockheed-martin-unveils-wider-larger-c-130xl-to-fight.html
now, who would buy them 

C-130XL


The CG image looks interesting.  Perhaps a scale-o-rama kit bash between a 1/72nd scale and 1/48th scale C-130 to get the jumbo fuselage would be the best option if you are looking to build it in plastic.

The article also included an image of a RNorAF C-130J for comparison