Sail-propelled submarines

[Joe C-P]

Yes, this strange idea is actually based on real-world stories.
The first is an odd, short reference in the book "United States Submarine Chasers" by Hilary Ranald Chambers, the entirety of which I quote here:

"Unit A had a thrilling chase of four hours after a submarine with sails. When they began to get within gunfire, the craft submerged with sails all set and was lost track of."

I cannot find any other reference to a WW1-era submarine with sails.

Second is the USS R-14, which was involved in the search for the tug USS Conestoga in 1921. She left Hawaii with what turned out to be insufficient fuel and ended up stranded out at sea, with a non-functional radio. Her captain had the crew sew together hammocks to create a sail, and then two others, and managed to sail back to Hawaii.

So one would need retractable sails and folding, or at least reducible masts. Hmm.

[zenrat]

Hmmmmm, folding or telescopic masts maybe.  There's a lot of hull in the water so maybe she could sail close to the wind without needing a keel?
The raison d'être could be that she could dive beneath the waves to avoid rough weather.

[NARSES2]

The first is an odd, short reference in the book "United States Submarine Chasers" by Hilary Ranald Chambers, the entirety of which I quote here:

"Unit A had a thrilling chase of four hours after a submarine with sails. When they began to get within gunfire, the craft submerged with sails all set and was lost track of."

I have read accounts where submarines have had been jury rigged with sails after the engines failed similar to your quote above and that may have happened a few times "back in the day". Indeed might not a marooned submarine have used both wind and manpower and been jury rigged with sails and oars ?

Designed with sails as motive power ? I've not read anything but if you had a submarine operating in a very calm stretch of sea then it might have been useful on patrol in the early days ? Extends the range and adds some form of "silent running". Engines simply used in getting to the patrol area and when in action either above or below the surface ? A lot of early actions of course would have occured with the submarine surfaced.

[jcf]

Roller furling sails are not unusual, most commonly the jib. Some large
sailing yachts have roller furling on all sails, they roll up into the hollow
mast. So theoretically you could have a hollow mast with a roller furling
mechanism with a retractable boom that closes the open side of the mast.
Then the whole assembly folds down onto the deck.

A two masted ketch rig (main mast taller than mizzen mast, mizzen fwd.
of cockpit) could have the main mast fold aft, the mizzen fold fwd.
A schooner rig (main mast taller than foremast, main mast at amidships or
just aft, carries more canvas) which would probably make more sense, could
fold the main fwd and the foremast aft.
Needless to say either would be Bermuda aka Marconi rig rather than gaff rig.


Marconi rig ketch


Marconi rig schooner


Gaff rig schooner

The fully triangular sail Bermuda rig gained the Marconi nickname because of the
masts resemblance to the early Marconi radio aerials.

[jcf]

Fulton's Nautilus was designed with auxiliary sail.



His second design was more of a submersible cutter.

[PR19_Kit]

Roller furling sails are not unusual, most commonly the jib. Some large
sailing yachts have roller furling on all sails, they roll up into the hollow
mast.

The absolute ultimate of this idea is used on the 'Maltese Falcon', a mega-tech yacht that was built in the early 2000s. I saw it set sail off the Isle of Man in 2009 and to see all those sails set themselves was amazing, not a single human being was visible during the entire operation. 

[jcf]

Andromeda la Dea is a monster Perini Navi built ketch, it was in Hawai'i
for several months back in the early-'90s when I was living there and I got to
go onboard one time, very briefly. It was the same deal, the setting of the huge
Marconi rig done completely from the con, Andromeda's sails are rolled into the
booms and around the jib-stays.

[zenrat]

Nice.
She's up for sale.  A mere $US 8,800,000.
https://www.northropandjohnson.com/yachts-for-sale/1360-andromeda-la-dea/

[NARSES2]

I can remember seeing the Andromeda la Dea when I was on holiday in Hawaii back then, absolutely gorgeous looker.

There's something about travelling very quickly under sail power, it's just so much more exhilarating than with an engine. The fastest I've ever been would have been in Hawaii when I was out on one of the US America's Cup entries which had seen a very basic conversion in order for it to carry passengers. Sailing into wind on a bright blue Pacific ocean is a memory which will stay with me a long time. Did it a couple of years on the trot.

[NARSES2]

Fulton's Nautilus was designed with auxiliary sail.

I was aware of this one Jon, but the submersible cutter is a new one on me. Very interesting, cheers 

As for the Maltese Falcon Kit, I swear I've seen something on the t.v. about the principle (Tomorrows World ?), but didn't realise such a large ship had been built. You were a lucky man to see that 

[jcf]

I can remember seeing the Andromeda la Dea when I was on holiday in Hawaii back then, absolutely gorgeous looker.

There's something about travelling very quickly under sail power, it's just so much more exhilarating than with an engine. The fastest I've ever been would have been in Hawaii when I was out on one of the US America's Cup entries which had seen a very basic conversion in order for it to carry passengers. Sailing into wind on a bright blue Pacific ocean is a memory which will stay with me a long time. Did it a couple of years on the trot.

Which boat did you sail on? Do you recall the name? I'm assuming you sailed
out of the Ala Wai Yacht Harbor? I split my time there at the Ala Wai working
on the Motorsailer Junk Intrepid Dragon II and working at Seaside Hostel
in Waikiki. I was in Hawai'i from May 1990 to August 1995.

I agree there is nothing quite like sailing offshore in the Hawai'ian Islands. 

[PR19_Kit]

As for the Maltese Falcon Kit, I swear I've seen something on the t.v. about the principle (Tomorrows World ?), but didn't realise such a large ship had been built. You were a lucky man to see that 

Damn right I was, I'd never heard of the ship until they mentioned that it had moored in Douglas Bay on the radio when Mrs_PR19 and I were on holiday on the other side of the island. I looked the ship up on the Net and thought 'I've GOT to see that!' and we raced off across the Island at some speed. No speed limits over there of course. 

We just came around Onchan Head and there it was, and shortly after it set sail giving me those terrific shots.

[NARSES2]

Which boat did you sail on? Do you recall the name? I'm assuming you sailed
out of the Ala Wai Yacht Harbor? I split my time there at the Ala Wai working
on the Motorsailer Junk Intrepid Dragon II and working at Seaside Hostel
in Waikiki. I was in Hawai'i from May 1990 to August 1995.

We sailed out of Ala Wai, but I can't remember the boat's name. She had taken part in the trials for the US's America's Cup entry, but hadn't won, whence her use as a tourist boat. I've loads of photos, I just need to find one where I can read her name 

I'd of been out there during the 80's and early 90's Jon. Used to stay at the Outrigger Village, which I think has since been bulldozed to become part of a Trump Resort ? Made friends I've kept and ones that I still go and visit in California. Seen their "little" girl go from 4 to 32 

Still love the Pacific. Think my favourite place out that way is Western Samoa. Gorgeous place and lovely people.

[jcf]

So it's probable we were there at the same time in the '90s. 

[kerick]

I was stationed there 1987 to 1991 while in the Air Force.