'Scale' in Revell Star Wars kits

[Weaver]

Okay, so we all know how frustrating it is that the cheap Revell level 3 ('proper' glue-and-paint) Star Wars models are all different scales, but it gets even odder when you realise that they don't even match the scales on the boxes. I've just bought the 1/241th Millenium Falcon, 1/112th X-Wing and 1/110th TIE Fighter, and I already had the 1/52nd Snowspeeder.

Now have a look  at this:



The dark grey gentleman on the left is the allegedly 1/110th scale pilot of the TIE Fighter. The light grey gentlemen on the right are the allegedly 1/52nd scale Snowspeeder crew. Shurley shome mishtake? Both crews are in proportion to their craft, BTW.

The 1/112th X-Wing looks about right, but is massively smaller than the "1/110th" TIE Fighter, when it's supposed to be much larger.

[loupgarou]

Thanks.This topic interests me and I hope there will be other posts/informations.
I had already problems understanding the scale in old issues of Revell SW kits.
I suppose it's a common problem with kits derived from SF subjects, where ther is NOT a real one, but just movie props and models that can be deformed at will according to the need.
The snowspeeder is a small vehicle, with such a small crew what scale could it be?

[Dizzyfugu]

Another factor is where the molds come from. Models created in Asia with figures tend to be "naturally" smaller than crews of Western origin. The differences can be disturbingly large, even if you have figures of the same nominal scale. Therefore, the Snow Speeder crew could be 1:100 or 1:72.

[zenrat]

...Models created in Asia with figures tend to be "naturally" smaller than crews of Western origin. The differences can be disturbingly large, even if you have figures of the same nominal scale...

True that.  Hasegawa pilots can look like the offspring of Airfix pilots.
Mind you, given the propensity of Japanese animators to pilot sci fi equipment with children...

[Weaver]

Just for clarity folks, let me point out again that both craft are in proportion to their pilots, i.e. the figure sizes aren't the issue, the scale of the whole kits is. I just used the figures as a handy reference because a) they're a 'standard' part common to both ships, and b) it heads off the 'scale-means-nothing-in-SF' argument because even SF vehicles have an implied size relative to the humans who interact with them.

[zenrat]

In any of the Star Wars filums do you ever get a shot of an X Wing and a TIE fighter alongside each other?
And do you get a shot of an earth normal human standing next to a TIE fighter?

[Old Wombat]

No, although you do get a sense of the scale of the pilot to the vehicle during a number of shots from behind the pilot through the front "glazing" and there are enough interactions between characters & extras to know that all the "human" types are similar in size & stature, with the exception of Darth Vader who is a bit larger than almost everybody.

The depicted TIE fighter pilot is not Vader (wrong helmet), so should be, given the stated scales, approximately half the size of the snowspeeder crew members.

Even if it was Vader, he's not 4-times larger than average!

Revell merely needs to decide on a size for its pilots (whether they be 2' tall or 20' tall ... although a 6' tall average would be the most broadly acceptable, I would suggest) & scale from there.



Oh, the discussions about scaling Sci-Fi subjects that have been had on the Starship Modeler website!

[kitnut617]

I think the nub of the problem is how can you ever come up with a scale from seeing models in a sci-fi movie ---- has anyone ever measured any of these models ?

[Weaver]

I think the nub of the problem is how can you ever come up with a scale from seeing models in a sci-fi movie ---- has anyone ever measured any of these models ?

Yes, original TIE-fighter models still exist. However that doesn't actually solve the problem, because there's a debate about how large they are relative to their pilots. The figures used in the models are large relative to the craft, implying that the craft is smaller, but the interior sets were roomier relative to the actors playing pilots, implying that the craft were larger. This interior/exterior mis-match is a common problem in trying to judge the size and design of sci-fi craft - less so in the CGI era since the software model of the ship MUST feature defined dimensions in order for it to work.

However my point about the Revell kits is more about the stated scales on the box: the TIE fighter CANNOT be 1/110th scale AND have a pilot who's larger than the 1/52nd scale Snowspeeder crew. Had they claimed 1/48th scale for the TIE fighter it'd be more credible.

[Weaver]

Here's what I mean. Blue guy is (presumably) a normal human in 28mm wargames scale. Skeleton guy was (presumably) a normal human in 28mm. Grey guy is the TIE Fighter pilot. Little white guy is a 1/72nd jet fighter pilot. Grey guy CANNOT be 1/110th scale, whatever it says on the box.

[zenrat]

Using war-game figures as a basis for scale calculations is risky business.
But I get your point.

[Steel Penguin]

both the wargames figs are early-mid 80 games workshop so are 25-28mm ( being the limited edition powered armour trooper and space skeleton),  more the point is the bases are all 25mm ( actual true real size) round bases.
so yep id go 1:56 to 1:48 on TIE pilot scale.   

[Weaver]

Using war-game figures as a basis for scale calculations is risky business.
But I get your point.

That's why the 1/72nd pilot figure is in the mix too. The wargames figures are mainly there for Steel Penguin's benefit, since the size of the TIE Fighter model puts it into potentially-useful-for-wargames territory.

[kitnut617]

Yes, original TIE-fighter models still exist. However that doesn't actually solve the problem, because there's a debate about how large they are relative to their pilots. The figures used in the models are large relative to the craft, implying that the craft is smaller, but the interior sets were roomier relative to the actors playing pilots, implying that the craft were larger. This interior/exterior mis-match is a common problem in trying to judge the size and design of sci-fi craft - less so in the CGI era since the software model of the ship MUST feature defined dimensions in order for it to work.

I started to watch a Star Wars movie on the TV last night (the one with a very old Harrison Ford), and I see what you mean about size perspective from different filmed shots (inside/outside). That does present a problem for ""true"" scaling   

Even so, in the ""real"" aircraft modeling world, you get such a variation of pilot figure scales, even within the same company producing them, for the same aircraft (Airfix Harriers come to mind, different variants though)

[Weaver]

I went and bought a load more of the cheapo Revell kits from Hobbycraft this afternoon, so I now have examples of the following:

1:110 scale TIE Fighter (standard one)
1:121 scale Darth Vader TIE Fighter
1:90 scale TIE Interceptor

Now bearing in mind that according to ALL Star Wars lore these three use the SAME cockpit ball, the size ratio of the models should be:

Biggest: 1:90 scale TIE Interceptor
Medium size: 1:110 scale TIE Fighter
Smallest: 1:121 scale Darth Vader TIE Fighter

However the actual size ratio of the models is:

Biggest by FAR: 1:110 scale TIE Fighter
Joint second (same size): 1:121 scale Darth Vader TIE Fighter
Joint second (same size): 1:90 scale TIE Interceptor

The TIE Interceptor cockpit ball will fit inside the TIE Fighter cockpit ball with room to spare.

The TIE Interceptor and DV TIE are so perfectly the same size that their cockpit glazings are interchangeable (and no, they aren't the exact same sprue).