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1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG of the New Iraqi Army, 2011

Started by Dizzyfugu, December 25, 2018, 07:14:11 AM

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Dizzyfugu


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect/Silesian Models kit conversion)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect/Silesian Models kit conversion)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect/Silesian Models kit conversion)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr




Some background:
Both the T-62 and T-64 were innovative in their own ways, but not successful in the long run because of their cost, complicated features, rushed production, or primitive FCS. The T-54/55 had been a highly successful export for the Soviet Union, but so far, nothing replaced it in this area. Due to their age and the never-ending competition between ammo and armor with the west, a new MBT with a large gun was needed. This model had to incorporate some innovations but had to be mature enough to exploit them fully and be fast enough to catch up with other vehicles. Overall, WARPAC quickly needed a replacement for its aging fleet of T-54/55s (the T-62 was only adopted by Bulgaria and the T-64 was even denied to the Warsaw Pact allies). So a "mobilization" model was called for, even though the T-64 was still in development.

Although in its general shape the T-72 superficially resembled previous designs, and especially the T-62 (small turret, low hull, very long gun), there were many differences in the drivetrain, turret design, engine, main gun and equipment. Compared to western standards, its specifics were regarded as drawbacks, being too small, cramped and uncomfortable. It was believed in the west the crewmen had to be of small stature (1.60 m or 5ft 3in), but after the fall of the iron curtain, it appeared to have been officially 1.75 m (5ft 9in). For its designers and commanders, the vehicle was in line with the experience of the Soviet armored forces during the "Great Patriotic War". The USSR modeled its tanks along a specific tactical use. Tanks were generally low, nimble and fast, being difficult to hit, contrary to western tanks, which were, comparatively, at least 50 cm (1ft 8in) taller – and the T-72 was even 60 cm lower than its potential opponents!

The height requirement also helped to keep the total weight largely under the NATO practice. This allowed a great deal of mobility despite an aged V-12 diesel. For example, two T-72 could cross a bridge instead of waiting in line to cross it one at a time. This low profile was a problem when fording rivers more than 5 meters (16 ft) deep and a comprehensive sealing procedure, a snorkel and tightly waterproof interior were needed. These fittings also helped NBC protection, rendered possible by a synthetic fabric made of boron compound lining which reduced (but did not) radiations. There was also an extensive air filter system with safety valves and constant over-pressure. This helped eliminate any poisonous contamination as well as residual fumes that could leak out from the autoloader. Overall vision was not outstanding, with a set of extremely small periscope viewports. The hull construction called for an RHA (rolled homogenous armor) hull made of cast steel.


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect/Silesian Models kit conversion)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect/Silesian Models kit conversion)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect/Silesian Models kit conversion)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


Crew comfort was seen as unnecessary, due to the survivability rates on the battlefield. The same law applied to a relatively non-refined interior and the simple, rugged, but efficient firing equipment, which was designed for mass production and easy maintenance. Any fragile and/or non-standard piece of equipment was therefore eliminated before production. This explained not only the production scale itself - much bigger than their western counterparts - but also the tank's export success. Such manufacturing principles allowed costs to be kept very low, and at the same time produced a rugged piece of equipment which was durable, with part standardization (= interchangeability) and relatively low-tech, which was an advantage in many pre-industrial countries, both for maintenance and upgrades.

The hull's basic RHA construction was augmented by spaced armor, which was upgraded to the T-64 standard composite armor in 1979. In the early 1980s, T-72s received additional add-on armor along with rubber side skirts, and, in the late 1980s, full ERA made of active protective tiles was generalized. At the origin, the basic cast armor was about 280 mm (11 in) at the thickest, with the nose up to 80 mm (3.1 in) and the glacis made of a 200 mm (7.9 in) thick laminated armor, well inclined. This gave a virtual equivalent of 500–600 mm (20–24 in) thickness against direct fire.

The turret was small in comparison to the T-62 and even the T-55, due to the elimination of the loader and its replacement by an auto-loader. The latter picked-up its rounds directly from a horizontal storage area (horizontally auto-fed), contrary to the faster and much more complex vertical actuators of the T-64 main gun automatic loader. The commander cupola was situated to the right rear, with four vision blocks, one periscope (later equipped with infrared sight), and a standard night illuminator. The gunner's hatch was situated on the right-hand side and slightly angled down to the turret side.

The V12 was basically derived from the WW2 era 500 hp T-34 engine. Rugged and well-tested, it was also shared with the T-54/55 and T-62 families, meaning a lot of parts were interchangeable. It was capable of 780 hp (582 kW), which made the T-72 look underpowered compared to western tanks of the time, but its performances were kept high due to the lightweight hull. It was also much faster and nimbler than the T-62 and even the T-55. This engine was coupled to a synchromesh, hydraulically assisted, seven forward/one reverse gears transmission. The steering system is a traditional dual-tiller layout, rather than the steering wheel/yoke familiar in the west, imposing constant two-hands handling. By the 1980s, the powerplant upgraded to the new 840 bhp (630 kW) V-84 diesel.


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect/Silesian Models kit conversion)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect/Silesian Models kit conversion)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect/Silesian Models kit conversion)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


The suspension set was a moderately new one, combining traditional torsion bars and shock dampers on the last and two first roadwheel sets. There were six evenly spaced sets of rubberized roadwheels per side. These roadwheels were completely redesigned and partly hollow, like the T-64 roadwheels, but made of steel rather than aluminum, due to costs and durability. They were also smaller and much lighter than the traditional "starfish" model, imposing four sets of return rollers to support the upper tracks. The tracks themselves were similar to the previous models, but not advanced like those of the T-64.

By 1973, the T-72 was accepted for service and over 25,000 units were built, but the production lines never really shut down. The T-72, in its modernized form, now represents the bulk of the Russian armored forces, and was adopted by the best armored units in all Eastern Europe forces. It was widely exported despite its price -double of that of a T-55- because it represented a good compromise, not complicated to operate and maintain, with many commonalities with previous models. It was a real upgrade in firepower, protection, speed and even fire accuracy compared to previous models, and even contemporary western MBTs. Unlike the T-62, the T-72 became an instant hit, was well-modernized over decades and is still frontline today, in thirty-six armies, including the Iraq.

Due to a ban on weapons deliveries after the Iran-Iraq war (where Iraq lost some 60 T-72Ms), a covert agreement was found to pass Czech-built M1 parts for a local assembly which was done as the "Asad Babil" or "Lion of Babylon". There were armed with downgraded FCS and LRF, and a poor-quality glacis plate armor. Like the "Saddam", a local adaptation of the M1 (downgraded for desert warfare), some suspensions' shock absorbers were removed and a local-built searchlight was added on the right-hand-side. Saddams and Asad Babils were seen in action by 1991 and again in 2001 gulf war. Iraq had about 1000 T-72s, M, M1, but also the locally built Saddam and Asad Babil in 1990. After 2003, their numbers had dwindled to 375, and only 125 were listed in the new Iraqi Army - even though there were negotiations to procure up to 2.000 revamped T-72 by 2009.


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect/Silesian Models kit conversion)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect/Silesian Models kit conversion)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


But this deal did not come to fruition, and in 2010 twelve mothballed Iraqi T-72 survivors, mostly only hulls with engines but without a turret or armament, were modified into anti-aircraft systems, through the adaptation of the British Marksman short range air defense system developed by Marconi.

The Marksman system consists of a turret which carries a Marconi Series 400 radar and two Swiss Oerlikon 35 mm anti-aircraft autocannons. It is similar to the German Gepard system in terms of performance, ammunition carried and effective range of the ammunition, and intended to provide low-level air-defense for tank battalions.
The Marconi 400 series frequency agile surveillance and tracking X/J-band radar is able to detect targets out to 12 km in search mode and 10 km in tracking mode. The additional laser distance measure device functions up to 8 km.  The turret can traverse a full 360 degrees and has an elevation range of −10 to +85 degrees. The magazines hold 460 fragmentation rounds and 40 armor-piercing anti-tank rounds. The vehicle is operated by only three crew members: commander, gunner, and driver. The commander and the gun operator in the turret both have gyro-stabilized optical aiming devices, and there are three communication radios in the vehicle for fire guidance and communications.  The Swiss 35 mm Oerlikon anti-aircraft guns have a rate of fire of 18 rounds per second and the fragmentation round has a muzzle velocity of 1,175 m/s. The effective range of the weapons is 4,000 meters. For self-defense, the vehicle is also equipped with eight Wegmann 76 mm smoke dischargers, a 7.62 mm assault rifle, and a flare gun.

In 2014 the Iraqi Army's T-72 battle tanks and the Marksman SPAAGs were actively involved in the Iraqi Civil War, an armed conflict which began in January 2014 with the Iraqi insurgency and which escalated into a civil war with the conquest of Fallujah, Mosul, Tikrit and in the major areas of northern Iraq by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL, also known as ISIS or IS). Even though no enemy aircraft were deployed, the T-72 Marksman SPAAGs proved to be very effective against lightly or unarmored vehicles and semi-fortified dugouts at medium range. The conflict ended in December 2017.




Specifications:
    Crew:     Three (commander, gunner, driver)
    Weight: 47.2 tonnes (52.1 short tons)
    Length: 8.06 m (26 ft 3 in) with turret forward and guns in march position
                    6.95 m (22 ft 10 in) hull only
    Width:  3.59 m (11 ft 9 in)
    Height: 4.46 metres (14 ft 7 1/2 in)
    Suspension: torsion-bar
    Ground clearance: 0.49 m (19 in)
    Fuel capacity: 1,200 L (320 U.S. gal; 260 imp gal)

Engine:
    V-92S2F V12 Diesel engine with 1,130 hp (840 kW)

Transmission:
    Synchromesh, hydraulically assisted, with 7 forward and 1 reverse gears

Armor:
    Steel and composite armour with ERA
    250 mm (10 in) maximum in the hull front

Performance:
    Speed:
      - Maximum, road: 80 km/h (50 mph)
      - Sustained, road: 60 km/h (37 mph)
      - Cross country: up to 45 km/h (28 mph)
     Operational range: 460 km (290 mi)
                                        700 km (430 mi) with additional fuel drums
     Power/weight: 18 hp/t

Armament: 
    2× 35 mm Oerlikon autocannon with 460 fragmentation rounds and 40 anti-tank rounds




The kit and its assembly:
Well, this is a rather simple, whiffy tank model. I have always been a fan of AA tanks, but there are only a few model kits in 1:72 scale, esp. of modern vehicles like the German Gepard, the American Sargeant Baker or the Finnish T-55 Marksman.

However, recently the German short run producer Silesian Models released a resin aftermarket conversion set with the Marksman turret, and I immediately was hooked and started wondering with which hull I could combine it? The resin set is actually intended for an M60 chassis, and while I found it to be a good idea I wanted a personal alternative. Using the Finnish T-55 variant as benchmark, I wondered if the Marksman system could be combined with a more modern hull of Soviet/Russian origin, and the omnipresent T-72 became an almost natural choice. Searching for a potential operator I eventually came across the New Iraqi Army, which operated the T-72 since the Eighties kept it in service until today.


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect kit conversion) - WiP
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect kit conversion) - WiP
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


The conversion is very simple and straightforward. The Modelcollect T-72 chassis was built OOB, using optional parts from the kit for the eight spoke wheels and a simple glacis plate without ERA. The side skirts were cut back.
A curious feature of the kit is the lower hull: it is a white metal piece instead of injected plastic, and the suspension parts are an integral part of this piece. This creates no major problem, though, and lowers the kit's CoG. You just need some superglue in order to attach the wheels and the upper hull parts, even though the latter can simple be attached in a snap-fit style. Overall detailling is superb and the fit is very good, too.


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect kit conversion) - WiP
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect kit conversion) - WiP
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


The nicely detailed Silesian Models resin Marksman turret went together well, too, even though the gun barrels were slightly bent. Some cleaning was necessary, but that has to be expected from such a short run kit. The turret also comes with an adapter plate for the M60 turret bearing, but it turned out to be too wide for the T-72 hull. So I simply cut out the T-72 kit's turret underside and glued it under the Marksman turret - and this worked very well and even had the bonus that I did not have to modify the kit's original turret bearing.
The only other addition are the wire antennae on the Marksman turret, made from heated sprue material.


Painting and markings:
Very straightforward, too. I used real life Iraqi T-72s as benchmark and chose a typical desert scheme, with an overall sand tone on top of which some brown mottles had been added. For the sand tone I used a car color: a Sixties Volkswagen tone called "Mexicobeige", applied with a rattle can. The brown mottles were later added with a small brush and they were mixed from Humbrol 29 (RAF Dark Earth) and 66 (Olive Drab) in a 2:1 ratio.

The Arabian tactical code number actually belongs to a MiG-29 (from a Begemot sheet), while the New Iraqi Army flag and the grey/green marking were printed with an inkjet at home on white decal paper.


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect kit conversion) - WiP
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect kit conversion) - WiP
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect kit conversion) - WiP
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


The kit received a light dry-brushing treatment with Humbrol 168 (Hemp) and also a light wash with a highly thinned mix of red brown and grey. A coat of matt acrylic varnish sealed the model.

After the track segments had been mounted, the running gear was dusted with fine artist pigments, and another dusting treatment was finally applied to the upper hull, too, once the tank model had been fully assembled.


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect kit conversion) - WiP
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect kit conversion) - WiP
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect kit conversion) - WiP
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr





1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect/Silesian Models kit conversion)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect/Silesian Models kit conversion)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect/Silesian Models kit conversion)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


1:72 T-72B "Marksman" SPAAG, vehicle "٣٠٥ (305)" of the Iraqi Army's 12th Light Infantry Division, 15th (Eagles) Brigade; Tikrit/Iraq, 2011 (Whif/Modelcollect/Silesian Models kit conversion)
by dizzyfugu, on Flickr


An interesting result, and even though the T-72/Marksman combo is fictional, the resulting SPAAG looks very plausible, even "natural"? The modern Iraqi colors and markings suit it well, too. Besides, a relatively quick and pleasant build/conversion, completed in less than five days.

nighthunter

"Mind that bus." "What bus?" *SPLAT!*

chrisonord

That is really cool Thomas, and also a favorite subject of mine. I have done a few SPAAG's for my Honduras army but nothing on any of the cartel tanks yet. Except for a Tunguska, which is a complete kit.
Chris
The dogs philosophy on life.
If you cant eat it hump it or fight it,
Pee on it and walk away!!

Dizzyfugu

Ah, I know the Tunguska kit. Quite horrible, IIRC, I slashed it up mostly for turret components for a mecha AA conversion many moons ago.

zenrat

Fred

- Can't be bothered to do the proper research and get it right.

Another ill conceived, lazily thought out, crudely executed and badly painted piece of half arsed what-if modelling muppetry from zenrat industries.

zenrat industries:  We're everywhere...for your convenience..

NARSES2

Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

chrisonord

Quote from: Dizzyfugu on December 26, 2018, 02:27:43 AM
Ah, I know the Tunguska kit. Quite horrible, IIRC, I slashed it up mostly for turret components for a mecha AA conversion many moons ago.
It was certainly a nasty kit to build, but I persevered with it, not been able to find another since, probably a reason for that.
I, will put a Russian tank based spaag on my to do list.
Chris
The dogs philosophy on life.
If you cant eat it hump it or fight it,
Pee on it and walk away!!

Mossie

I do like a Marksman, this one's particularly good. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I think the Marksman looks good on anything it's been mounted on, it was designed to fit virtually anything.
I don't think it's nice, you laughin'. You see, my mule don't like people laughin'. He gets the crazy idea you're laughin' at him. Now if you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

Weaver

Nice one Dizzy, that looks really good!  :thumbsup:

Silesian/Modeltrans do some awfully tasty stuff don't they? :wub: http://www.modelltrans.com/

BTW, do you know why the Marksman kit you got is for the M60? I can find a handful of pics on the web of a turret fitted to an M60, but they're on a Greek(?) website unfortunately, so I'm not much the wiser.
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

Dizzyfugu

I have no idea why the conversion kit I got (Silesian Models also does one for a T-55 chassis and one for the Leopard 2A4, both Finnish versions) is for the (Revell) M60 - there's no explanation. The kit just comes with a photo that shows the M60 Marksman from the side in a uniform desert paint scheme, but without any recognizable other markings. No indication that it could be a Greek vehicle (and Greek M60s carry, AFAIK, a relatively dark camouflage in earth and olive drab), but I'd assume that the US Army would not be interested in the system and that it is a demonstrator for somebody who's convert some existing tanks?

nighthunter

"Mind that bus." "What bus?" *SPLAT!*

Weaver

Quote from: Dizzyfugu on December 27, 2018, 04:31:34 AM
I have no idea why the conversion kit I got (Silesian Models also does one for a T-55 chassis and one for the Leopard 2A4, both Finnish versions) is for the (Revell) M60 - there's no explanation. The kit just comes with a photo that shows the M60 Marksman from the side in a uniform desert paint scheme, but without any recognizable other markings. No indication that it could be a Greek vehicle (and Greek M60s carry, AFAIK, a relatively dark camouflage in earth and olive drab), but I'd assume that the US Army would not be interested in the system and that it is a demonstrator for somebody who's convert some existing tanks?

Isn't the internet wierd? I looked and looked last night and couldn't find anything except the Greek site, then I just tried again and found the answer straight away  :rolleyes:

It was Saudi Arabia in the 1990s: they didn't end up buying it.
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones


NARSES2

Quote from: Weaver on December 27, 2018, 08:59:52 AM

Isn't the internet wierd? I looked and looked last night and couldn't find anything except the Greek site, then I just tried again and found the answer straight away  :rolleyes:


It's a conspiracy I tell you, a conspiracy  :angel: ;) ;D
Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

Rick Lowe

Quote from: NARSES2 on December 28, 2018, 12:24:00 AM
Quote from: Weaver on December 27, 2018, 08:59:52 AM

Isn't the internet wierd? I looked and looked last night and couldn't find anything except the Greek site, then I just tried again and found the answer straight away  :rolleyes:


It's a conspiracy I tell you, a conspiracy  :angel: ;) ;D

As I keep telling people, it's only a Conspiracy Theory, until it's a proven Fact!!