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Boulton Paul P 120 point defense interceptor.

Started by chrisonord, February 15, 2019, 01:42:53 PM

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Mossie

Quote from: chrisonord on February 17, 2019, 01:41:30 PM
Fireflash looks to be quite a large missile, is it similarly sized to the firestreaks, as they are way to big for these.
Chris

It's just over a foot shorter.  It's less bulky overall, but is much deeper due to its odd layout.
I don't think it's nice, you laughin'. You see, my mule don't like people laughin'. He gets the crazy idea you're laughin' at him. Now if you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

Weaver

Quote from: Mossie on February 17, 2019, 01:01:45 PM
Fireflash? Like others it'd need radar though.  It might be possible to make a thimble fairing, like with some MiG's.
https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/PAVU72175

It was a pretty small radar (basically an Eko ranging set) but then again, it was a pretty poor weapon: a radar beam-rider that required the pilot to keep the nose pinting precisely at the target for the whole of the missile flight.
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

Weaver

Quote from: PR19_Kit on February 17, 2019, 02:31:45 PM
Quote from: Weaver on February 17, 2019, 04:52:21 AM

Apparently it was discovered that it was possible to set off a Genie by dropping it hard enough.


It'd be interesting to see how they discovered that.

I suspect some of my more lurid tales of explosive tests having gone wrong would pale into insignificance by comparison!  :o :o :o

Theoretical studies and component tests, which is reassuring. Some years after it entered service though, which is not. Various people were still battling the USAF to get safety improvements onto Genies as late as 1974... :o
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

chrisonord

For an unguided rocket armed P111, I have looked at mighty mouse 2.75 inch rockets as I possible candidate. Finding a suitable pod for them is my next job, and working out how long they will be in 1/72nd scale.
Chris
The dogs philosophy on life.
If you cant eat it hump it or fight it,
Pee on it and walk away!!

Weaver

#19
Quote from: chrisonord on February 18, 2019, 03:11:45 AM
For an unguided rocket armed P111, I have looked at mighty mouse 2.75 inch rockets as I possible candidate. Finding a suitable pod for them is my next job, and working out how long they will be in 1/72nd scale.
Chris

The standard British small RP of the 1950s was the 51mm Microcell rocket. It was mostly seen in MATRA-style pods (with three rings of tubes rather than the two rings of the more common 68mm pods), but I think I'm right in saying that there was also an LAU-style pod with frangible end caps. Even if there wasn't, you can easily invent one since rocket pods aren't that complicated and peculiar-to-type pods and launchers were quite common. Personally, I'd just take a pair of FFAR pods from the Hasegawa weapons set and fit the aerodynamic nose and tail caps so that you can't see the size and quantity of the tubes anyway. A bit of maths and geometry will give you the right number of rockets to claim are inside them... ;D

Found this data on the web here: https://groups.io/g/airbattle/topic/bounty_microcell_rocket/1646490?20,0,0,0::RecentPostDate%2FSticky,,,20,2,160,1646490

JL351 rocket pod: 51mm/2inch x 32; total weight 461 kg; Length : 3.880 m; diameter : 0.510 m.
Microcell 2inch rocket: 51mm; weight 4.88 kg/10.75lb ; warhead: 1.362kg/3lb ; length 0.910m ; diam: 2inch
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

chrisonord

I think I may have some pods come to think of it with end caps moulded in, whether they are long enough remains to be seen. Cheers H, you have been very helpful, with this project :thumbsup:
Chris
The dogs philosophy on life.
If you cant eat it hump it or fight it,
Pee on it and walk away!!

Weaver

Off the top of my head, I think there are capped pods in the Airfix Skyray and probably other Skyray kits too, since these weapons seem to have been carried quite frequently on them.
"Things need not have happened to be true. Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will endure when mere facts are dust and ashes, and forgot."
 - Sandman: A Midsummer Night's Dream, by Neil Gaiman

"I dunno, I'm making this up as I go."
 - Indiana Jones

Mossie

Quote from: Weaver on February 17, 2019, 03:39:13 PM
Quote from: Mossie on February 17, 2019, 01:01:45 PM
Fireflash? Like others it'd need radar though.  It might be possible to make a thimble fairing, like with some MiG's.
https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/PAVU72175

It was a pretty small radar (basically an Eko ranging set) but then again, it was a pretty poor weapon: a radar beam-rider that required the pilot to keep the nose pinting precisely at the target for the whole of the missile flight.

Yeah, I was more thinking of aesthetics really, in reverse.  I thought the odd arrangement of the Fireflash might suit the dumpy looks of the P.111.

Quote from: Weaver on February 18, 2019, 04:55:07 AM

Quote from: chrisonord on February 18, 2019, 03:11:45 AM
For an unguided rocket armed P111, I have looked at mighty mouse 2.75 inch rockets as I possible candidate. Finding a suitable pod for them is my next job, and working out how long they will be in 1/72nd scale.
Chris

The standard British small RP of the 1950s was the 51mm Microcell rocket.

Another possibility is pop out pods like the Lightning and Sea Vixen carried.  I've a vague memory of some design or other having pods that where faired into the leading edge, although my brain could be making that up.
I don't think it's nice, you laughin'. You see, my mule don't like people laughin'. He gets the crazy idea you're laughin' at him. Now if you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

PR19_Kit

Quote from: Mossie on February 18, 2019, 06:32:24 AM

I've a vague memory of some design or other having pods that where faired into the leading edge, although my brain could be making that up.


Lockheed F-94 C Starfire?

I'd like to post a pic but the combined forces of this BLOODY laptop and ImageShack just refuse to work, even after a hard re-start!  :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Kit's Rule 1 ) Any aircraft can be improved by fitting longer wings, and/or a longer fuselage
Kit's Rule 2) The backstory can always be changed to suit the model

...and I'm not a closeted 'Take That' fan, I'm a REAL fan! :)

Regards
Kit

kitnut617

Quote from: PR19_Kit on February 18, 2019, 08:20:48 AM
Quote from: Mossie on February 18, 2019, 06:32:24 AM

I've a vague memory of some design or other having pods that where faired into the leading edge, although my brain could be making that up.


Lockheed F-94 C Starfire?

I'd like to post a pic but the combined forces of this BLOODY laptop and ImageShack just refuse to work, even after a hard re-start!  :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Well there's the faired in tanks from a Gnat which could be converted to have rocket pods in the nose. Like what was done in that Sheen movie Hot Shots
If I'm not building models, I'm out riding my dirtbike

jcf

Some oddball period concepts that might be possibilities.





I like the 4 1/2" gun and the in-wing rocket tubes, the six tube arrangement on the belly would
be easy to model.  ;D

chrisonord

Because of how small these things are, I don't think internal weapons will be an option, unless they are blistered gun pods. Under wing cannon pods could work, but they would have to be quite small. I have been looking at the kits I have, and the 111/111a has another fuselage, and three sets of wings with it, to do different versions. The 120, doesn't even get any spare canopies, so I Will have to be very careful with that one, unless, I can get one of the spare canopies from the 111 to fit.
Chris
The dogs philosophy on life.
If you cant eat it hump it or fight it,
Pee on it and walk away!!

Mossie

I don't think it's nice, you laughin'. You see, my mule don't like people laughin'. He gets the crazy idea you're laughin' at him. Now if you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

chrisonord

Quote from: Mossie on February 19, 2019, 02:22:49 AM
The pop out installations on the Sea Vixen and Lightning were surprisingly compact:

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234918672-dh-sea-vixen/

http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/wp-content/gallery/ee-lightning/English-Electric-Lightning-F.53-Saudi-Arabia-at-Farnborough-Airshow_2.jpg
There is some good info there Mossie, cheers. I have found a pair of rocket pods in the bits box that will do the trick I think, and they will either be on the clipped wing tips or underneath, as they are only short and quite slender. The 120 will have a license built, and improved I.R. AIM-4 falcon armament.
The dogs philosophy on life.
If you cant eat it hump it or fight it,
Pee on it and walk away!!

NARSES2

I must admit a pop out rocket pod would have been my first suggestion. Somehow seems so much of the period to me for some reason.
Do not condemn the judgement of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.