F-5U Morsair (December 2004 - May 2008)

[John Howling Mouse]

To make my build more difficult (naturally), I will be forced to actually build the gull wing as much as possible from the existing "regular" laminar flow wing of a 1:48 Monogram Mustang.

That way, the wing will be fairly true to the original and I will get to play with 42 million wingspars and nearly as many clamps again....    :dum:

To top it off, I believe I will navalize mine with beefier landing gear, a tail hook and scribed lines for wingfolds-----why not make it even more difficult to land this thing on a pitching, rolling deck?

I'll probably end up painting it in the 3-color non-specular USN scheme of the Corsairs while I'm at it!

And, for once, I'll actually have someone ELSE to blame for the idea: JEFFRY!!!!
 B)

[elmayerle]

JHM,

If you're going to do a gull-wing Mustang, you might at least consider using a gear retraction like the Corsair's rather than a Mustang's.  The engineering and tooling for a production aircraft would be fair simpler that way as the degree of motion an inward retracting, or outward retracting for that matter, gear would require with the gull wing would take a rather large actuator with subsequent demands on power and such.

Just my $0.02 before taxes.

Evan

[John Howling Mouse]

wow, you must read simple minds over long distances, Evan!

I was just thinking about how to pull the wheels in.

Mr. D'uh over here never considered simply copying the general idea of the Corsair!  :dum:

Thanks for the tip (and thanks for letting me know BEFORE I started cutting and chopping up another one)!

Jeffry, you up for this?  Go get a couple of Monogram Mustangs out of that bunker of yours and let's build a pair of gull-winged "Mustangles" (to borrow a phrase from one of the UK modeling mags)!!!!!!!!!

 

[nev]

To top it off, I believe I will navalize mine with beefier landing gear, a tail hook and scribed lines for wingfolds-----why not make it even more difficult to land this thing on a pitching, rolling deck?

Baz, you're missing one crucial part of the equation here


You need to build it with the wings folded


It just wouldn't have that aura of authentic Snell "you did what?  Are mental?" ness about it

:dum:  

[elmayerle]

Another thought, JHM, is that using the Corsair's wing-folding as a guide would be a good move; I like the idea of the hinge rib being not too far outboard from the main gear and its mounting structure.  This lets you build all your heavy structure right together there where the bits can reinforce each other.

[John Howling Mouse]

I'll build two.  One with gullwings but not folded (to warm up the Mustang purists and JMN's) and another with folded gullwings  (to drive the Mustang purists and JMN's truly crazy).

Jeffry, you in?

 

[elmayerle]

I've got a question, JHM, how much are you going to modify the Mustang fuselage for this inverted bull-wing?  There are some very carefully thought out features to the design of the Mustang, starting with the P-51B, for simplifying the production lines and i'd imagine that the designers would want to carry these over.  If you want, drop me a PM or an email and we can discuss it.  I am of the opinion that the Mustang represents a brilliant approach to designing for producibility and I'd like to see that kept.  Strictly my predjudice, but it's there.

[Tophe]

how much are you going to modify the Mustang fuselage for this inverted bull-wing?

A gull (or inverted-gull) wing is orthogonal to the rather circular fuselage (like a middle-wing) while a low (or high) wing is tangent to it requiring Karman link or some smoothening, so a simplified/direct link seems wise for the P-51gul, no?

another with folded gullwings  (to drive the Mustang purists and JMN's truly crazy).

Uh? JMNs having read Aerospace Projects Review do know the folding-wing Mustang, only the gull wing is brand new, copyrighted JHM more than NA (as far as we know)...

[elmayerle]

It depends on how much of the Mustang fuselage structure you intend to keep using.  The Mustang wing was designed as a single-piece wing to be completely assembled and check out before being mated to the fuselage.  Retaining this feature would be useful.

I'd go for a flat section under the fuselage with the wings coming in perpendicular to the fuselage sides at that point; this simplifies your lower fuselage structure and lets you primarily redo and reduce the wing to fuselage fillets.  From the standpoint of retaining good design features, this would be good.  You could also redo the portion of the wing where the leading edge meets the fuselage; Mustangs now have a section there to allow for the main gear wheels and without the gear retracting there, you wouldn't need it.

[John Howling Mouse]

I have a photo-book of a complete P-51D re-build.  They show the wing assembly as a self-complete sub-assembly just as you indicate, Evan.  But would anything like that actually be doable with a gull-wing?  How are Corsairs built, for example?

[elmayerle]

I think Corsairs are built with the center section attached to the fuselage and the folding wing panels built up separately.  For purposes of re-using as much Mustang fuselage as possible, I'd make the center section of the gull-winged Mustang designed so it could be built up separartely and then fitted to the fuselage with the outer wing panels then attached.  And, yes, I can see how it could be done, at least in my mind.  I'll have to see if I can find a Mustang three-view and see what I can sketch up using the "cut 'n' paste" method.

[John Howling Mouse]

Took the day off!  Guess what I'm working on today?

Did some revisions:

[Ollie]

Holy bat-thread revival!

We demand more pictures!

       

[John Howling Mouse]

So, you get your dwg the way you want it, trace it from behind for the part you want to copy (the tail, in this case).

Then, redraw the lines from the "right-side-up" which will transfer the reversed lines drawn underneath to your target slab-o-plastic (30 or 40 thou styrene sheet).  Cut out the outline and leave yourself additional plastic as a "hand hold" for sanding later:



This is what the initial pieces look like after they've been sanded into an airfoil shape (hard to see on white unless you see them in person):







And the matching pair of tailfin halves are done!  Joined, they're about the same thickness as a P-51's tailfin in this scale (1:48):

[cthulhu77]

Holy Swiss Cheese Bazman !!!!  Coolness !