Spitfires over Indonesia

[TallEng]

In late 1962, Air Marshal Sir John Nicholls instigated a trial when he flew Spitfire PM631, a PR Mk 19 in the custody of the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight, against an English Electric Lightning F 3 in mock combat at RAF Binbrook. At the time, British Commonwealth forces were involved in possible action against Indonesia over Malaya and Nicholls decided to develop tactics to fight the Indonesian Air Force P-51 Mustang, a fighter that had a similar performance to the PR Mk 19. The first airframe (PM631) developed mechanical issues which removed it from the trial. Another PR Mk 19, PS853, which is now owned by Rolls-Royce, was on gate-guard duties at Binbrook, having been retired from the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight (BBMF) one year before. It had been maintained in running condition by ground crews at Binbrook, and after a short time was participating in the trials. At the end of the trials, RAF pilots found that Firestreak infrared guided missiles had trouble acquiring the Spitfire due to a low exhaust temperature, and decided that the twin ADEN 30 mm cannons were the weapons best suited to the task, which was complicated by the tight turning circle of the Spitfire, and the Lightning's proclivity for over-running the Spitfire. It was concluded that perhaps the Lightning was not the most effective and safest way to deal the problem at that time. When Nicholls was asked what he thought would be the best way to deal with this scenario, he quoted a well known BofB Fighter Pilot....
A Squadron of Spitfires! 
The Spitfire had now been out of active service with RAF some 8 Years and it was with some doubt, that a search was conducted of the various M.U.s and storage depots around the U.K. For serviceable Spitfires. Eventually much to everybody's surprise, approximately 20 Spitfire Mk.24 were found dismantled and in crates in a small storage depot, not too far away from Castle Bromwich were they had originally been constructed. Most had only flown very few hours; often it appeared only for their test flights before being dismantled and packed away in their preservation crates, To be transported away and forgotten about. These 20 or so airframes were reassembled at Castle Bromwich, given a quick test flight and then flown to RAF Binbrook where in late 1963 they were to be worked up and formed into Fighter Squadron fit to take on the Indonesian Mustangs. After some 9 months of training and refining/relearning piston engined fighter tactics the squadron was declared operational. The aircraft where then dismantled and packed away into the crates once more ready for the long sea journey to Indonesia ready to be reassembled for operational use over Malaysia.

The back story is not quite finished, I still need to find a Squadron and decide wether the Spitfires become operational in the confrontation
I quite like the idea of them being transported to an Airfield, but due to the changing situation, not being assembled, but just left in the corner of a Hanger
somewhere until Struck Off Charge and scrapped on the Airfield. Or maybe they were Bulldozed into a large hole in the ground and covered up......

And I also need a Camouflage scheme. All over silver? a bit boring, The then current fighter scheme Dark Sea Grey, Dark Green over silver? possibly too subtle? Dark Earth, Dark Green over Silver? possibly or a bit left field but one of the schemes in use on the Helicopters out there was Middle Stone, Dark green, over Silver undersides..

There 'maybe' an Airfix Spitfire 24 to follow if the modelling Gods allow.

Regards
Keith

[Snowtrooper]

US Southeast Asia scheme, but done with RAF colours? Eg. Dark Green, Lichen Green,  Middle Stone uppers and Light Aircraft Grey lowers?

[Nick]

This has great potential!
I'm sure there were several Spitfires on various RAF bases in that period, often owned by CO's who flew them during the war.

One thing - Castle Bromwich reverted to car making in 1946 and the aerodrome closed in 1958. Might be better sending the Spits to RAF Biggin Hill where the RAF Historical Flight was located in 1963.

[The Wooksta!]

Suitable serials?  VN324, VN325, VN328, VN329 and PK713.

As for a scheme?  Standard scheme of the time.  Has to be subtle and believable.

[scooter]

US Southeast Asia scheme, but done with RAF colours? Eg. Dark Green, Lichen Green,  Middle Stone uppers and Light Aircraft Grey lowers?

Ooh, that's a great idea

[zenrat]

Good story.

...I quite like the idea of them being transported to an Airfield, but due to the changing situation, not being assembled, but just left in the corner of a Hanger
somewhere until Struck Off Charge and scrapped on the Airfield. Or maybe they were Bulldozed into a large hole in the ground and covered up...... ...

Where would they have been shipped via?  Singapore?  Darwin?  Townsville?  Its a long sea voyage so it's quite possible they arrived too late, were unloaded, taken to the nearest airfield and put in a hanger while a decision was made about whether to bring them back again.  And maybe that decision was to keep them here in case similar circumstances occurred...
...such as a need by the RAAF for CAS aircraft in Vietnam?

[TallEng]

Suitable serials?  VN324, VN325, VN328, VN329 and PK713.

As for a scheme?  Standard scheme of the time.  Has to be subtle and believable.

Standard Fighter scheme at the time would be Dark Green over Dark Sea Grey with silver undersides and 'D' Type roundels/fin flash.
Underwing serial numbers in Black, or possibly white on the fuselage although that may have come later.
I did wonder if that was too subtle? presumably no squadron codes just an individual Aircraft Letter.
(that and a coloured spinner might alow a splash of colour)

Regards
Keith

[The Wooksta!]

79 Sqn disbanded in 1960 and didn't reform.  You can steal the nice markings from the Airfix swift which would give some colour on the fuselage.

If you're using the Airfix Spitfire 22 - I'm assuming 72nd - you'll need to move the radio hatch on the starboard side forward. 

As for the scheme - it looks good on Spitfires.  I've done several in that scheme and they look fab.

[TallEng]

So thanks to The Wooksta I have a Colour scheme, some serials a Squadron number and
an idea for squadron markings. Some assembelage has taken place, although its not so easy as I'm
currently in a Swedish Hotel, with a very basic tool kit and a couple of tins of paint, using my thumb as a
cutting board (and we all know what happens when you do that ) though touch wood, thanks
to Airfix's soft plastic not yet
IMG_20191106_163028 by , on Flickr
its the Airfix Mk 22 and at home I have the Airfix Swift for the squadron markings, and the Freightdog Spitfire 22 improvement set, although I'm not sure how much of that is applicable to a Mk 24?
have to wait and see and consult my Griffon Spitfire book.
Regards
Keith

[The Wooksta!]

Why wait to consult a book when a: you have the greatest library literally at your fingertips and b: at least two Spitfire experts on here?

The only external real change is the radio hatch moves forward.  Some 24s had the short barrel Hispano cannons but not as many as people seem to think.  Freightdog does - or at least did -  a dedicated mk 24 conversion, with a new prop, template for the hatch, guns, wheels and new u/c doors as the last ones on the production lines had the same u/c doors as the Seafire FR47.  Wonder if he's got any left as I could do with several...

You *definitely* need to remove the two raised things on the fuselage above the wing roots just aft of the engine firewall - they're catapult slinging points not applicable to a mk 22.  I wonder if Airfix were considering a Seafire 46 at some point as there's very little conversion work to be done.

[TallEng]

Thanks for the info
I wasn't aware we had at least two Spitfire experts here, I'm only aware of one
I've asked Colin at Freightdog if he has any Spitfire 24 conversions left.
And I like looking in books
I have been using the greatest Library, That's how I now know that (I) they should have looked at 99 M.U. RAF High Ercall
for the Spitfires Apparently when the THum flight at Woodvale was looking for replacements for their tired PR.19's
in early 1956 they Trialed an F.24 as there were "large quantities of MK.24's and spares stored at High Ercall"
see here http://derbosoft.proboards.com/thread/13753/thum-flight-1953-woodvale-speke
if anybody wants to know more about the THum Flight and its aircraft.

Regards
Keith