Prototypes G.B. General Discussion

[McColm]

The thing that's most enthusing me at the moment is a Basler BT-67 (turbo-Dakota) with a ventral radome. The idea is that Britten-Norman prove that the AEW Defender, with Searchwater radar, is a viable cheap AEW platform (it's basically a fixed-wing AEW Sea King), but it also demonstrates that for longer missions you need more consoles and relief crew on board. Looking around for a bigger, but still cheap, platform, they approach Basler. The BT-67 is ideal because the fuselage stretch is a new component that can be suitably modified and the tail-dragger u/c puts it way off the ground.

Got the Airfix Dakota
Got the Alleycat BT-67 conversion
Got the radome (old AEW Shackleton conversion)

The thing that might trip me up is the markings.

Option 1 - A&AEE Boscombe Down 'raspberry ripple' scheme. A&AEE actually had a Dak which they retired at about the same time this project would exist and there's an aftermarket decal sheet for it because in real life, it then went to the BBMF as a warbird. The reason for using this scheme would be that only the A&AEE had the test ranges & equipment to flight-test the mod.

Option 2 - some sort of civilian company scheme.

The problem with either of these is that I can't help thinking they'd have the company names on them somewhere. There are no decals that I know of, my printer isn't working and I don't want to spend any money at the moment...

May be able to help you with the Raspberry Ripple decals - was given an Xtradecal set a while back and not likely to use them.  I'll need to find them first though...

Sounds similar to the Australian ARDU C-47 Dakota used in Project INGARA without the turboprop engines.  Red Roo do the 1/72 conversion set.

[The Wooksta!]

Red Roo are pricey to start with and then postage from Australia is not cheap.  Weaver is also on a budget here...

[Mossie]

Lots of small BAe & BAE systems titles and logos on this Hawk set:
https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/COM72004?result-token=EUhO3

Single large and 2 smaller BAe logos along with Rolls Royce on this Harrier sheet:
https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/VTH72122?result-token=EUhO3

The Raspberry ripple Dak has Royal Aircraft Establishment titles & not A&AEE if that's important.

[Weaver]

The thing that's most enthusing me at the moment is a Basler BT-67 (turbo-Dakota) with a ventral radome. The idea is that Britten-Norman prove that the AEW Defender, with Searchwater radar, is a viable cheap AEW platform (it's basically a fixed-wing AEW Sea King), but it also demonstrates that for longer missions you need more consoles and relief crew on board. Looking around for a bigger, but still cheap, platform, they approach Basler. The BT-67 is ideal because the fuselage stretch is a new component that can be suitably modified and the tail-dragger u/c puts it way off the ground.

Got the Airfix Dakota
Got the Alleycat BT-67 conversion
Got the radome (old AEW Shackleton conversion)

The thing that might trip me up is the markings.

Option 1 - A&AEE Boscombe Down 'raspberry ripple' scheme. A&AEE actually had a Dak which they retired at about the same time this project would exist and there's an aftermarket decal sheet for it because in real life, it then went to the BBMF as a warbird. The reason for using this scheme would be that only the A&AEE had the test ranges & equipment to flight-test the mod.

Option 2 - some sort of civilian company scheme.

The problem with either of these is that I can't help thinking they'd have the company names on them somewhere. There are no decals that I know of, my printer isn't working and I don't want to spend any money at the moment...

May be able to help you with the Raspberry Ripple decals - was given an Xtradecal set a while back and not likely to use them.  I'll need to find them first though...

Is it this sheet?  https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X72084?result-token=MhPSt

[Weaver]

Lots of small BAe & BAE systems titles and logos on this Hawk set:
https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/COM72004?result-token=EUhO3

Single large and 2 smaller BAe logos along with Rolls Royce on this Harrier sheet:
https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/VTH72122?result-token=EUhO3

The Raspberry ripple Dak has Royal Aircraft Establishment titles & not A&AEE if that's important.

The thing is though, I don't need BAe titles, I need Britten-Norman logos and whatever Basler use (doesn't seem to be a logo as such on their website).

Yeah I meant RAE not A&AEE - the difference doesn't matter.

[rickshaw]

Sounds similar to the Australian ARDU C-47 Dakota used in Project INGARA without the turboprop engines.  Red Roo do the 1/72 conversion set.

Speaking of ARDU's C-47s.  We are presently being shown "Operation Buffalo" which is a tragi-comedy about, well, Operation Buffalo the British Nuclear tests are Maralinga.   As it says at the begining of each episode,  "This is a story of Historical Fiction.  Just an awful lot of weird history happened around then..."  Anyway, I was somewhat amused to note in the episode the other evening, that the hero of the piece is seen boarding an RAAF C-47 which bore on it's rudder an unmistakable ARDU symbol.  Now, I know ARDU held the record for operating C-47s longer than anyone else in the RAAF.  Their pilots were younger than the aircraft they flew.  I also know that the RAAF donated their two aircraft to museums.  Obviously one is still flyable...   

[Weaver]

Sounds similar to the Australian ARDU C-47 Dakota used in Project INGARA without the turboprop engines.  Red Roo do the 1/72 conversion set.

Had a look at this now. Interesting: I'd never heard of it.

Funnily enough, there was another long-nosed BN Defender around at the same time as the AEW Defender called the CASTOR Defender that was aimed at a British Army requirement for a similar radar-ground-surveillance function as INGARA. It had a platypus-shaped nose with a flat 'biscuit tin' radome underneath it. The CASTOR role eventually went to RAF with Global Express aircraft, and the CASTOR Defender was rebuilt to have a similar 'bulb' shaped nose as the AEW.

The INGARA conversion wouldn't work for my concept because a) the radome is too flat for a Searchwater's aerial, and b) it puts the radome under the rear fuselage while my idea puts it under Basler's stretch just behind the cockpit.

[The Wooksta!]

Quite possibly that sheet but I'd have to do some archaeology to find it.

[PR19_Kit]

On an eligibility front for this GB, an RAE or similar scheme wouldn't be allowed.

If it was a civvie modification and flown under the owner's colours that would be OK as it would be 'prototyping' the radar and equipment fit, but if it was in RAE colours that would indicate that it had been taken over by the MoD or similar and thus outside the scope of the build.

[Weaver]

On an eligibility front for this GB, an RAE or similar scheme wouldn't be allowed.

If it was a civvie modification and flown under the owner's colours that would be OK as it would be 'prototyping' the radar and equipment fit, but if it was in RAE colours that would indicate that it had been taken over by the MoD or similar and thus outside the scope of the build.

I think in that case I might pass on it then. I'm quite sold on the Rapberry Ripple scheme, especially as there's a decal sheet for it, so I'll probably do it another time outside the scope of this GB.

[PR19_Kit]

I know what you mean H, I have that RIAT Raspberry Ripple scheme sheet for the Dak too and it's very attractive, just not right for this GB.

[Weaver]

Okay, so here's an idea I can do with what I've got.

A WWII British helicopter prototype. I was originally thinking of the Baynes Heliplane tiltrotor concept, but then I discovered the Platt-LePage XR-1 which had the same layout but was a 'conventional' side-by-side twin rotor design:



Mine would be based on a GAL Hamilcar* glider with thickened-up outer wings and two Gazelle rotors on the wingtips, shaft-driven from an RR Kestrel in the fuselage. Colour scheme would be green/brown topsides, yellow undersides and prototype 'P's (because that's what I've got in the stash). It would be a prototype, not a research aircraft, because the idea was to produce it as an observation/liason/light-attack type, although I'll probably have it fail in the backstory because of all the usual early helicopter problems.

Is this okay?


*EDIT: Hotspur not Hamilcar: the little 8-seater training glider.

[PR19_Kit]

Sounds like 2/3 of a Cierva Air Horse. 

I think it'd be OK, but I'll consult of course.

[jcf]

 
Sounds great to me.

[PR19_Kit]

There you go H, 100% approval.