Avro Type 690 Leeds - the true story

[PR19_Kit]

I've forgotten how fragile vacforms are.

I've started the dreaded panel line scribing process on the Leeds fuselage, and half way through I thought I might as well cut out the slots for the wing tabs and the spar that goes from one wing to the other.

Almost a disaster ensued!

The fuselage sides are so fragile where the wing slots need to be, and they're very high up too, so while cutting the slots it was bending the sides back and forth and they almost snapped right off along a 2-3" length! 

Luckily I stopped in time to re-enforce the area with superglue and I'll continue later on, MUCH more carefully....

[PR19_Kit]

It's got wings! 



After the re-enforcement of the port wing slot, the starboard one was much easier, and with the spar that comes with the FROG Shackleton kit in place both wings slid into position nicely. 

It'll need a little PSR around the joint, bit otherwise it looks pretty good and is pretty strong too, thank goodness.

[McColm]

You've given me an idea for an twin engined build 

[NARSES2]

I was (slowly...) coming to the same conclusion, the foam sanding blocks just tend to reproduce the contours that are already there.

I've never thought of that, but I suppose it is what they are designed for ?

Neat tip Fred, thank you 

[PR19_Kit]

He saved the day Chris, the previous 3-4 days I'd been PSRing away like a madman and making very little progress.

During ONE day's worth of doing it Fred's way and it was sorted. 

[zenrat]

Glad I could help.  It's not my idea though, I just picked it up from somewhere.

[Rheged]

Glad I could help.  It's not my idea though, I just picked it up from somewhere.

............and we are most grateful that you passed it on!

[PR19_Kit]

Panel lines are fast becoming even more hated than PSR in my modelling! 

The Leeds had raised panel lines on the vacform fuselage, LARGE raised panel lines, so they had to go, and the Shackleton is notorious for its 40000 rivets, all of which needed to be sanded and filed off. As a result I had to scribe panel lines on the entire model, a pretty hefty task.

It went OK on the wings mostly, they're all straight lines and I made very few mistakes, but the fuselage is square sectioned with rounded edges, and making sure the lines joined round those corners was a REAL PAIN! I also had to scribe the three doors on the fuselage, all of which had rounded corners, and that's where it really came unstuck!

I use the hefty Tamiya scribing tool and it's just too unwieldy to scribe round the corners, even though I'd cut styrene templates for all three door shapes, so every single scribe line went off course. That meant I had to fill the off-course excursions with putty and then re-scribe, or try to. And then some of THEM went off course too! Aaaaaaagggggghhhhh! 

I'm now on the third 'fill and rescribe' session, and it's driving me nuts!

How does everyone else get round this sort of problem, I'm open to any and all suggestions.

[Gondor]

How does everyone else get round this sort of problem, I'm open to any and all suggestions.

Easy, I dodn't usually do panel lines

Gondor

[The Wooksta!]

I'm kind of on the fence.  If they're recessed and if sand them off/fill them, I'll rescribe, but if it's raised I just don't care.  With the V bombers I'm working on, the Victor and Vulcan have lost panel lines but the Valiant has had them all replaced.

72nd models are the real thing 72 feet away.  I can't read a car number plate at half that, so panel lines? 

Basically, just get it to a stage you're relatively ok with and just leave it.  Other routes lead only to madness...

O you could change your scribing tool - a needle in a pin vice is much easier, vastly more comfortable to handle as it's more like a biro.

[PR19_Kit]

Plonking it together for the pic the other night without any panel lines on the fuselage and one wing, it looked bald rather than anything else. I'm used to how Yorks looked as my Dad was in charge of the RAF's last ones, and their panel lines are familiar.

I like the needle in a pin vice idea though, that's not directional, and I'll give it a go. Thanks again Lee. 

[Rick Lowe]

I echo the needle idea, but also the not bothering idea... depends on the model.
If you don't mind raised lines but want to replace ones sanded off, apparently using a scalpel to cut along where the line was makes a reasonable* facsimile, due to the plastic being pushed up out of the cut groove.


I have heard some folk use the old raised lines as guides to scribe new ones, then get rid of them - won't help you now, but...



*'Reasonable', if you can live with the fact that looking too closely willl reveal a double line...

[PR19_Kit]

I tried the needle system and it worked pretty well, but it doesn't quite hide the rubbish scribing attempts I made originally. It's good enough for Government work though. 

The wings and tail are now glued in place, with both styrene glue and superglue, just in case. I'm always wary about gluing injection stuff to vacforms, so the more strength the better. No doubt more PSR will be needed on the joints, but it's not looking too bad.



I've scratched a centre fin from a few layers of styrene sheet, and that's going to need a fair amount of PSR too. The standard centre fin from the York kit is far too small to match the Shackleton fins, even though I've already narrowed them quite a bit.

[zenrat]

Panel lines?  I don't bother other than moving surfaces and doors/hatches.

If you want to break up a big surface a bit then why not mask up some panels and spray with a slightly different colour?  Still time consuming but easier to recover from mistakes than scribing disasters.  And surely it's the slightly different coloured or textured panels you see IRL rather than the actual lines along the edges.



<edit>  I feel the need to clarify that the statement about panel lines relates to kits with raised detail.  Engraved ones I tent to try and save when performing PSR.

[Rick Lowe]

Ooh, like Fred's idea but slightly different, what about spraying transfer film with slightly a different shade(s) and applying as different sized panels?