Mirage IV

[Archibald]

MirageIV as the mother ship for a French UAV controlled from the second seat---hypersonic interceptor....one way to boot.

TSR.2 refueler?


Uh...would "hypersonic" be said "Eye-bair-Zonn-eeg"?
Daryl J., who just heard "Kaniggits!" again on YouTube

Interesting, that what is actually planned for the Rafale and Neuron. A two-seat Rafale as mothership for an UCAV    

[GTX]

Another "almost" from the real world would be a RAAF Mirage IV - apparently Dassault were very confident it would have been chosen as a Canberra replacement! (Any takers from the Profilers?)

Regards,

Greg

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Another interesting build would be to "scale-down" a Mirage IVA to change it into a Mirage IVC. I mean, cut a large chunk of fuselage length (15 feet) and span (10 feet)  to reduce overall size, result  would be a Phantom competitor in the late 50's. Well, that was Dassault wanted  circa 1956, before french governement decided in favor of Mirage IIIA, the twin-jet machine becoming a pure bomber.

Your proposal would be better served by performing a "scale-o-rama on a 1/72nd scale Mirage IV and turning it into 1/48th scale aircraft.  At least that way the cutting would be held to a minimum and the only real surgery would be to make the 1/48th scale cockpit and canopy fit on the 1/72nd scale fuselage. 

[GTX]

Speaking of Israeli Mirage IVs, I recently read that Israel seriously considered trying to acquire some for use in the strategic recon role.

Regards,

Greg

[Archibald]

Yes they did! It was considered around 1965-1967 along Mirage F2 and  Tsiklon (heavy Vautour upgrade)

[MAD]

Let this thread become "all things Mirage IV" WHIF...

I recently found a French language site that had an image of the Mirage IV loaded up with 1000 pound general purpose bombs.  I was quite pleased to finally see an image of what had been a rather elusive subject, a conventionally armed Mirage IV.  For a very long time, this was something had only been described in writing, now there is a nice image that provides visual proof.  

Can we share this interesting picture 

M.A.D

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Let this thread become "all things Mirage IV" WHIF...
I recently found a French language site that had an image of the Mirage IV loaded up with 1000 pound general purpose bombs.  I was quite pleased to finally see an image of what had been a rather elusive subject, a conventionally armed Mirage IV.  For a very long time, this was something had only been described in writing, now there is a nice image that provides visual proof.

Can we share this interesting picture

Here is a link to the main page of the Mirage IVP.com web page: http://www.mirage4p.com/

The first image is located on the page titled "La Fin Du Mirage IVA" armed with a rather substantial load of eight general purpose bombs of 750 pound or 1000 pound each. 

The second image is located on the page titled "Commandes De Vol" and shows a Mirage IVA armed with conventional bombs as well as the fuel tanks.


******
Has anyone ever attempted to convert the Mirage IV forward fuselage over to something more traditional such as a radar in place of the refueling probe and a more conventional looking cockpit and canopy? 

I have always disliked the IFR probe on the nose of the Mirage IV and have given a lot of thought to how best to replace it with a more conventional looking radar nose.  This has become quite the challenge to me and yesterday I think I may have uncovered the solution to the problem.  It will require the forward fuselage section from an F-4E/F/G/J Phantom.  If you compare the forward fuselage parts from the F-4 with those of the Mirage IV you find that there is a common diameter between them that will allow you to make a cut on the F-4 parts and the Mirage IV parts that will give you a radar nose section and still leave you with the majority of the Mirage IV forward fuselage section that can then be mated up to the main fuselage assembly. 

The replacement of the Vee-shape windscreen with something more conventional that includes a flat pane for a gun sight or HUD is still ongoing.

[Jeffry Fontaine]

How co-incidental!  I was just looking at this thread this morning, and now a suggestion as to how we can graft in a proper radar nose, cheers!  I'll keep the info in mind for my "Kfir-ised" version, which looks like being a late 08/early 09 build at present. Thinking clipped wingtips for launcher rails to allow short range defensive winders/pythons to be carried.

Hi Duncan,

Good to see that I am not alone in the pursuit of WHIFfing the Mirage IV.  The windscreen and canopy issue may be a mute point but I keep thinking that there is a need for more forward visibility through the windscreen.  The Vee-shape windscreen looks good from a design point of view but the center post really cuts into the view from the front seat.  This could be overcome by adapting a windscreen from a Mirage 2000 or one of the earlier Mirage III/V or F.1 but size is the limiting factor.  I pulled out kits of each type to perform check-fit of the parts and most of them come up short thanks to the wider fuselage of the Mirage IV.  My next foray into this subject will be widened to include the F-18 and F-15 as potential donors, both of which have a one piece windscreen that might work. 

Regarding your desire to clip the wings, that could be interesting.  I was going adapt the wing pylons from a Mirage III/V to fit the Mirage IV and see what happens.  The real challenge is to find suitable pylons for use under the fuselage. 

The bomb recess can be filled with a 600 gallon fuel tank from the F-4 (early style, not the F-15 tank used later) as it has the right shape.  You can also adapt the reconnaissance pod from the FGR.2 (F-4M) to fit this cavity since it has a shape that is very similar to the 600 gallon fuel tank. 

The engine exhaust parts are still in need of some improvement and I took some time to do a check-fit of the exhaust parts from a Hasegawa F-15.  Happy to report that fit is not a real problem.  I did check to see if the exhaust parts from a Mirage 2000 would also fit and test fit the Monogram and Esci parts to see which would be better.  Both of these are of a larger diameter and will require some trimming of the exhaust fairing on the Mirage IV to make it work.  The end result would be a very visible exhaust nozzle protruding from the rear instead of the hidden parts that are included in the kit. 

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Something for everyone.

Mirage IV electronic warfare aircraft.  EW equipment from the F-4G adapted to the Mirage IV to include carriage of the AGM-45 Shrike and AGM-78 Standard ARM.  Additional version for escort role configured to carry an anti-radar version of the AGM-69 SRAM armed with a conventional high explosive warhead.  The signature features of this Mirage IV Wild Weasel would be based on the F-4G Wild Weasel using the pod mounted on the tail and the usual bumps and antennas associated with this mission. 

The anti-radar version of the AGM-69 SRAM (AGM-69 SRAM ARM) would be based on a standard AGM-69 missile but fitted with the seeker and high explosive warhead from the AGM-78 to create a conventional weapon that could be used for tactical as well as strategic missions.  Primary targets would be forward based SAM and ABM systems such as the SA-5 and ABM-1.

Countries that could have flown this version?  France AdA and of course the usual suspect such as the RAF, RAAF, and RNZAF?  Any other suggestions?

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Not that I have a Mirage IV fetish   but following discussion with Thorvic this afternoon, this idea resulted....

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l206/Overkiller_2006/OgiveConcorde.jpg

Ogive Delta Mirage IV, either as an upgrade program, or as a one off testbed for Concorde (thinking like the MiG 21 Analog and instead of the BAC 221 rebuild of the Fairey Delta II).

Duncan,

Great idea!  What would be the best source for a Concorde wing such as this to fit a 1/48th scale Mirage IV?  You could also take it one step further and try it out on the Mirage 2000 and Mirage III/V to see if it would work.  

[KJ_Lesnick]

Imagine an advanced derivative of the Mirage-IV with:
-Overall bigger
-Two bigger-engines
-Revised inlets:  (Possibly longer) half-cone inlets more flared in shape, intake lips raked forward
-More revised area-ruling
-Canards like the K'fir
-Possibly a slightly enlarged (proportionately speaking) wing

Whatcha think?


KJ Lesnick

[ElectrikBlue]

 

I have a 3D model of a Concorde/Mirage it's mostly based on the Concorde wing and powered by 4 ATAR 9K50. 

A 3 view was posted on my topic, see by yourself!
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/topic,22165.msg319385.html#msg319385

EB

[rallymodeller]

******
Has anyone ever attempted to convert the Mirage IV forward fuselage over to something more traditional such as a radar in place of the refueling probe and a more conventional looking cockpit and canopy? 

I have always disliked the IFR probe on the nose of the Mirage IV and have given a lot of thought to how best to replace it with a more conventional looking radar nose.  This has become quite the challenge to me and yesterday I think I may have uncovered the solution to the problem.  It will require the forward fuselage section from an F-4E/F/G/J Phantom.  If you compare the forward fuselage parts from the F-4 with those of the Mirage IV you find that there is a common diameter between them that will allow you to make a cut on the F-4 parts and the Mirage IV parts that will give you a radar nose section and still leave you with the majority of the Mirage IV forward fuselage section that can then be mated up to the main fuselage assembly. 

The replacement of the Vee-shape windscreen with something more conventional that includes a flat pane for a gun sight or HUD is still ongoing.

To quote others on the site, here is a profile I prepared earlier:



Just haven't been able to find the Heller kit (not that I'm in a position to buy one right away anyway...)

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Jeremy,

Your concept certainly looks good with that solid RADAR nose in place of the normal Mirage IV nose.  It reminds me of an F-106 for some reason, must be the black dressing around the nose and cockpit that brings out the resemblance. 

[dy031101]

How does the Mirage IV carry conventional bombs (I heard it is capable of carrying conventional bombs)?

Like an anti-ship and SEAD Mirage IV......