Mirage F.1

[Zen]

Seeing as how the F1 had a landing speed of 125kts why did'nt they ever develope a navalised variant instead of buying the F8 Crusader?

While we're at it....

Would have been interesting to see it re-engined with a M53 or F404, I know South Africa flew one with a RD33.

But what about J79's (like the Kfir) or Avon (like the aborted attempt to sell that to Australia), or even a Spey since they are more of the periode of the planes heyday?

[retro_seventies]

somewhere, recently (possibly here) i read that a proposed naval mirage f.1 WAS proposed...

now here it gets fuzzy because i don't remember exactly what i read, but i believe it was proposed as an alternative to the naval jaguar.

as for speys, i think that radish has that one covered with his efforts at the boulton paul works in wolverhampton, with his range of boulton paul spectres.

the f.1n would be a great model though...

how about a twin engined stretched version for fleet defence, with a beefy radar and a french made long range active radar homing missile? sort of "une phoenixe", so to speak...

[overscan]

Yes, an M53 engined naval version was proposed by an Aeronavale report in 1972, probably more to bang another nail in the Jaguar M coffin than anything else.

M53 "Super Atar" was no more than a turbofan derivative of the old Atar series, not especially high tech. The max thrust was 8,500kg, compared to 7200kg for Atar 9K50.

The F1E prototype (competed against the F-16 in the "sale of the century") with M53 was 23mm longer, with slightly enlarged intakes to suit the increased mass flow (84kg/sec from 72kg/sec) and a slightly bulged rear fuselage.

F1E had an INS, modern HUD and a Cyrano IV-100 radar. The new engine gave 1200m higher ceiling, extra 60m/sec initial climb rate and extra 120m/sec climb rate at medium altitudes, extra 0.7g in sustained turning at Mach 0.95, 2.5 min off the time to 40,000ft and an extra 105km on hi-lo-hi range with 4 1,000lb bombs.

[Davey B]

I first envisioned a naval F.1 as an F-8 replacement, entering service in the early 80s with a Mirage 2000 engine and radar    

[Zen]

The M53 is the same engine as those used on Mirage2000's, just an earlier version of said. Like with all engines it has grown in thrust, reliability, servicability etc...

Dassault did have a twin engine design in the 70s, I think called the ATF ironically enough, very swept back wings twin M53 and two recessed in tandem Super R530's along the centerline (another two could be hung one on each wing). Such was the cost of actualy developing it that they dropped the project.

F1-N sounds a good idea IMO, shame it never happend....hmmm should have updated it with RSS making it a CCV but I guess the Mirage2000 idea dominated all. Irony that had they done a unstable F1 the benfits would have made it last longer as a fighter.

[nev]

Its my understanding that the UK will be re-introducing a conventional aircraft carrier in the near future.

Ah, you mean HMS Improbable and HMS Unlikely as Radish likes to call them?    

[Zen]

Hmmm...

first off its damn typical of the French to cut their own nose off to spite their face, making the F1 all french even when offered as a competitor to the F16....had they added a few other nations bits of kit the thing might have stood more chance.

Equaly its odd the French never made an offer of a navalised version to the UK, since first flight was what? 1967 that suggests they could have offered something before then as part of a deal.
Powered by say a Avon or a more modern engine or the time......

Strikes me that the thing is low enough in weight and slow enough at landing to operate off of even Hermes.

euqaly its damn odd they never flew a FBW version, especialy when you consider all through the 70's and early 80's Brough had some somewhat similar shaped aircraft comming off of the drawing boards.

Seems like a lot of wasted opportunities there.

[Bryan H.]

The Mirage F.1 already looks carrier-ready with those big, rough-field capable landing gear.  Just do some wing folds & it'd be a good what-if carrier fighter.  Maybe naval Mirage F.1N's for Argentina, Brazil, Aeronavale, Japan, India & Australia...

Bryan

[retro_seventies]

japan!

a bit far fetched as the usa seems to have japan in its pocket, aircraft sales wise, but they would look great!

brazilian ones flying from the foch...great stuff!

[Joe C-P]

japan!

a bit far fetched as the usa seems to have japan in its pocket, aircraft sales wise, but they would look great!

brazilian ones flying from the foch...great stuff!

Nope, Japan flies F-15JNs off their carrier, replacing their F-4JNs.  I should know, because I'm building a model of their CVDN. ^_^

Brasil, however, is a great idea!  B)

JoeP

[GTX]

Thread revival:

What about a FSW F1. - simply reverse the standard wings?

Regards,

Greg

[Archibald]

Ok, this was January 2005 - Pollux joined following april,  I joined one year later. 
Didn't see Overscan post of course- not very nice on M53! -
I had heard too of a naval F1, but I thought it was powered by the Atar.

Answer to the question "WTF didn't they navalised the F1 ?" is easy : its simply because the competition was on STRIKE aircrafts (A-4, A-7, Jaguar M, SE...) not multirole fighters.

Vought Crusader just had entered aeronavale service in 1965... but they were the last ever build by Vought! That's the problem.
The F-1 flew in 1967 but Bigand crash delayed IOC by three years.
If the aeronavale chose to wait for the F-1, then fleet defence lays on Etendard IV until 1972 at best.

FSW F-1 sounds cool!

[Jeffry Fontaine]

Politics and national pride aside.  Here is something for you to contemplate:

Mirage F.1 with avionics from the MiG-23 to include the signature radome of the Flogger.  May as well toss in the engine too.  Clients for this little gem could be any number of third world countries that have a need for speed with the simplicity of maintenance at a really friendly price. 

[PolluxDeltaSeven]

The fuselage shape of the F1 is closer to the Mig-21's than the Mig-23's. I'm even not sure that such a radar could fit in a Mirage 2000!
But the idea of a Mirage with Russian avionics always sounds good to me! I just like the idea of a full load of those beautiful and terrific Russian missiles under a F1!

[MAD]

Ok, this was January 2005 - Pollux joined following april,  I joined one year later. 
Didn't see Overscan post of course- not very nice on M53! -
I had heard too of a naval F1, but I thought it was powered by the Atar.

Answer to the question "WTF didn't they navalised the F1 ?" is easy : its simply because the competition was on STRIKE aircrafts (A-4, A-7, Jaguar M, SE...) not multirole fighters.

Vought Crusader just had entered aeronavale service in 1965... but they were the last ever build by Vought! That's the problem.
The F-1 flew in 1967 but Bigand crash delayed IOC by three years.
If the aeronavale chose to wait for the F-1, then fleet defence lays on Etendard IV until 1972 at best.

FSW F-1 sounds cool!

Anything would be better than the Etendard IV / Super Etendard
This would have to be one of the most limited capability aircraft made in the West, during the Cold War (A some what equivalent of the Su-7 'Fitter', in its limited weapons load or fuel equation – except the Su-7 was more rugged and hard hitting and gave good combat service!!).
Man did the French Navy pilots get ripped off or what!
M.A.D