Major Powers political shift

[Old Wombat]

First thing that strikes me, in relation to world civil & military aviation, is that Igor Ivanovich Sikorsky & Alexandr Nikolaievich Prokofiev de Seversky probably wouldn't have emigrated to the US, meaning that their aviation expertise & inventiveness would have remained in Russia.

Any ideas on who would try to/probably flee the USA to, say Canada, the UK or ... Russia?

Fairly sure Henry Ford would remain in the US, he was quite the supporter of the Leninist/Stalinist USSR in the RW.

Howard Hughes would certainly give it a try, & probably succeed.

[sideshowbob9]

Well I can't really speak on the wider scenario as it is a bit too broad for me. I'll leave that to more vivid imaginations. The aeronautical émigrés stay home idea you mention above though is an interesting one and is one I have mulled myself. I did a profile inspired by a Alexander Kartveli stays home scenario some time ago that is not entirely off-topic(?).

Kartveli Ka-7SM 'Fumble E' VVS Blue 19

[Old Wombat]

Cool!

[NARSES2]

If I sound a bit grumpy, by the way, it's because I am. I'm also confused as to when the Hell the world decided that everything had to make historical sense when trying to have a bit of fun!

Apologies but I've just finished reading a series of books about The First World War on the Eastern Front and I'm afraid my brain just slipped into thinking about your scenario combined with the actual history.

If you want I'll delete my response ?

[Old Wombat]

Nah, it's OK, Chris, it wasn't just you. Had similar responses on BtS. I'm fine, now!


So, carrying the idea a little further:

I see the United Socialist States of America (USSA) becoming even more isolationist from Europe but, in keeping with the Ongoing Revolutionary Process underpinning International Communism, pushing south into Central America. Canada, being part of the British Empire, & associated with its various allies, being a bit too risky to take on directly, so becoming a nest of intrigue, full of agents provocateurs & counter-agents provocateurs, fifth columnists & counter-fifth columnists, spies & counter-spies.

The various post-WW1 naval treaties fail, as the European democracies see them as the USSA's attempt to quell their ability to project their influence globally, but, especially, in South America, & limit the strength of the Royal Navy, in particular.

Meanwhile, the British find reasons not to immediately begin paying back the USSA for war loans negotiated with the USA, thus giving them more money in the 1920's-30's to grow their economy.

Simultaneously, the Russians grow stronger & more industrialised on the back of greater social freedoms, brought about by the reduction of the power & influence of the nobility, allowing more entrepreneurship & the effective exploitation of resources.

There's more but I'm too tired, right now, to go on but if anyone else wants to express where they see this going: Go for it!

[NARSES2]

I can definitely see Central America falling under the influence (if not control) of a USSA even more so than the real world one did/has ?

Does it then role on into S America or do they simply support the whole range of left wing groups who form down there ? Could you get Britain/France/Netherlands involved in some anti guerrilla activities in the Guiana ?       

[Mossie]

Any ideas on who would try to/probably flee the USA to, say Canada, the UK or ... Russia?

J. Edgar Hoover? Joe Kennedy Senior and family?

[Old Wombat]

I can definitely see Central America falling under the influence (if not control) of a USSA even more so than the real world one did/has ?

Does it then role on into S America or do they simply support the whole range of left wing groups who form down there ? Could you get Britain/France/Netherlands involved in some anti guerrilla activities in the Guiana ?       

I see Central America becoming a bunch of closely controlled client states, like Central Europe was for the USSR in OTL.

South America would be a major USSA focus of support for Left Wing factions, as would, to a lesser but not insignificant degree, Africa & SE Asia.

Any ideas on who would try to/probably flee the USA to, say Canada, the UK or ... Russia?

J. Edgar Hoover? Joe Kennedy Senior and family?

Good call!

[sideshowbob9]

Any ideas on who would try to/probably flee the USA to, say Canada, the UK or ... Russia?

J. Edgar Hoover? Joe Kennedy Senior and family?

McCarthy would have an interesting life in this timeline!

[Rheged]

Any ideas on who would try to/probably flee the USA to, say Canada, the UK or ... Russia?

J. Edgar Hoover? Joe Kennedy Senior and family?

McCarthy would have an interesting life in this timeline!

McCarthy  believed himself to be a super-patriot.   He was only 10 years old at the end of WW1.  He may well have joined the "Young Socialists of America"   and become a demagogue at the opposite end of the political spectrum to real world.

"Have you, at any time, ceased to be a member of the Communist Party of this great country?"

[Pellson]

McCarthy  believed himself to be a super-patriot.   He was only 10 years old at the end of WW1.  He may well have joined the "Young Socialists of America"   and become a demagogue at the opposite end of the political spectrum to real world.

"Have you, at any time, ceased to be a member of the Communist Party of this great country?"

I think this is a very relevant observation.

[Old Wombat]

Having glanced at J Edgar's early life I can believe he'd have gotten out & been an enforcer of some form for the "White Americans" (White in the same sense as "White Russians", no racial basis).

Depending on how the Communists came to power would have a lot to say in how the Kennedy's fared;
- If through sudden violent revolution, then they may have ended up lying in pools of blood in a Boston basement. However, although they were a political family, Joe Kennedy Sr didn't begin amassing his fortune until after 1920, so may not have been such a major target.
- If through the electoral process, the manager of a Boston steel works with a more liberal political stance may have been useful to the USSA & have been wooed into the Party, rather than executed ... Maybe JFK would still end up as President, just of the USSA.


The young McCarthy is highly likely to have become a Commissar of the People, presiding over show trials & executions, he has that fanatical trait that more militant Communists would have loved (to a point, then he'd be "purged").


Meanwhile:

15 year-old Howard Hughes Jr has escaped to England with his parents but finds the weather & the British not to his liking. So, after his parents' deaths & still not yet 20, moves on to France, where he begins to produce moving pictures.

Australia, seeing the threat across the Pacific, requests assistance from the UK in becoming more industrialised, which, although England likes maintaining its manufacturing hold over its (former) colonies, it agrees to. This is as a result of the UK also seeing the threat across an ocean & understanding that two industrial bases on opposite sides of the world increases the strength of the Empire. Australia commences a recruiting drive from industrial centres across Europe to bring in skilled & unskilled (but industry-familiar) workers - this puts it in a mild conflict with Russia, which is also looking to increase its skilled labour force to train its own workers.



Now, I just need to think about how to start bringing all these ideas into a format that WE can use to grow this idea!

[zenrat]

By the late 1920's young black americans, having been educated by a state which believed all men were created equal irrespective of skin colour, would make their way to africa to bring about the glorious day and free their ancestral homelands from the various Imperial powers controlling them.

There is also the question of Japan.  Russia would have had a score to settle there. 

[Old Wombat]

By the late 1920's young black americans, having been educated by a state which believed all men were created equal irrespective of skin colour, would make their way to africa to bring about the glorious day and free their ancestral homelands from the various Imperial powers controlling them.

Good idea!

There is also the question of Japan.  Russia would have had a score to settle there.

Maybe. Maybe not. The old monarchy is gone, the nobility has lost much of its power & the new parliament has no real axe to grind.

[zenrat]

There is also the question of Japan.  Russia would have had a score to settle there.

Maybe. Maybe not. The old monarchy is gone, the nobility has lost much of its power & the new parliament has no real axe to grind.

But the navy will remember...